[NL2-NL10] NL25 KTs SB

    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      fold preflop? , bet/fold flop? is it ok to check/call the river when draws missed?

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $4,75
      BB:
      $19,25
      UTG+1:
      $25,00
      UTG+2:
      $32,40
      MP1:
      $25,00
      MP2:
      $15,25
      MP3:
      $8,65
      CO:
      $14,30
      BU:
      $5,30

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.60 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T:diamond: , K:diamond:
      UTG+1 calls $0,25, 6 folds, Hero calls $0,15, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0,75) Q:spade: , K:spade: , 5:club: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks.

      Turn: ($0,75) 7:diamond: (3 players)
      Hero bets $0,50, BB calls $0,50, UTG+1 folds.

      River: ($1,75) 2:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $1,50, Hero calls $1,50.

      Final Pot: $4,75
  • 9 replies
    • allizdoR
      allizdoR
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 4,568
      i mostly dislike to complete in the SB especially on nl50 because of the blind structure.

      what your line on the flop?

      as played I will bet Turn and River for Value
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      on the flop i was playing check/fold if utg+1 bet, check/call if BB bets.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I only limp in with PP if I get 4:1 . Broadway gappers aren't that good and really hard to play ( 'never overplay KingJack © Tony G' )

      As played
      Flop Ok
      Turn Ok
      River lead out for 1/2 pot (ValueBet). Fold to a reraise as BB has an AF of 0.5 out of 43 hands. While sample isnt valid we can assume he is passive.
      ValueBet/Fold on the River

      But once again, I do not like your kicker.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      @gerv:

      thanks for your answer , i agree with you , in fact i hate KingJack and KingTen , only play them with decent odds on the sb , or very shortstacked on a tourney.

      i'm 200 sp short of the elephant licence, so i didn't see the AF while playing the hand.
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      I agree with gerv, I only play small PP from SB. I used to complete with suited broadway gappers and I learned something.

      If you put money into the pool with a rookie hand the sharks will eat you alive. Against the chum this is a good hand as they often limp small suited kings and go broke with TP. However, because the chum dont know how to play they will often limp AK-Q as well. So with a hand like that you are either shark-bait or you've jumped in the pool with the chum and are hoping to pull one out and not get eaten.

      I lost money on suited gappers, and raked it in with small PP (chum never ever see trips coming, you can literally hear thier jaws hit the keyboard when the cards turn over)

      The judges will tell you not to, but on NL10 or 25 I limp PPs from any position, TT-88 if SHC says fold I limp instead. In doing this I might lose a few BBs here and there, but I fold to aggression and missed flops, in short, the limp preflop is the only gamble I am willing to take. (it often pays very well when you hit a set)

      If you still insist on playing broadway gappers you need perfect post flop play. In this Hand you must put your villian on a draw when he flat calls the turn (a bigger K would raise you for river value and FE) You have the initiative and the river shows a blank, so you must value bet (as gerv said) and fold to a push. The only way a busted draw wins the pot is to bluff at weakness. If he does have a bigger K and only calls you on the river, then you have minimized your loss while still making it to the river.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Hey davidangel, thanks for your answer.

      Originally posted by davidangel
      I agree with gerv, I only play small PP from SB. I used to complete with suited broadway gappers and I learned something.

      If you put money into the pool with a rookie hand the sharks will eat you alive. Against the chum this is a good hand as they often limp small suited kings and go broke with TP. However, because the chum dont know how to play they will often limp AK-Q as well. So with a hand like that you are either shark-bait or you've jumped in the pool with the chum and are hoping to pull one out and not get eaten.
      agree.


      The judges will tell you not to, but on NL10 or 25 I limp PPs from any position, TT-88 if SHC says fold I limp instead. In doing this I might lose a few BBs here and there, but I fold to aggression and missed flops, in short, the limp preflop is the only gamble I am willing to take. (it often pays very well when you hit a set)
      i strongly disagree with this, you need decent odds or implied odds to play for set value and at least in my case i try to find the looser tables so if i limp TT in early position (on middle it's supposed to be a raise) they will raise behind way to often. low PP are in fact way easier to play than a rookie hand like KTs since we shouldn't lose more money unless we hit our set. but we don't hit sets often enough to make it profitable, we need to:

      -hit a set on the flop (1:8)
      - don't get raised behind (table dependent i would say
      - stack some idiot (maybe the easiest one :D )

      since we have a 16-24BB stack it doesn't worth it.


      If you still insist on playing broadway gappers you need perfect post flop play. In this Hand you must put your villian on a draw when he flat calls the turn (a bigger K would raise you for river value and FE) You have the initiative and the river shows a blank, so you must value bet (as gerv said) and fold to a push. The only way a busted draw wins the pot is to bluff at weakness. If he does have a bigger K and only calls you on the river, then you have minimized your loss while still making it to the river.
      that's exactly what i'm asking for, seems like a value bet is the best play.

      i tought that if he had a better king he would bet , maybe check behind KJ but will bet a busted draw since is the only way he can win.
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      The sheer amount of chum at the low limits are all the implied odds I need to gimp small PP. I could probably spit out some kind of complicated math formula to show you why, but I won't :D
      Happy chum hunting
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      i agree, but these chum raise a lot of crap behind us that it makes it unprofitable, they raise any Ax Kx suited, KJo is all in and any pair is the nuts. that's why it's profitable to go to war with jacks or queens since these guys have no problem in calling the all in with Q4 zooted :D

      but they raise crap too. playing for set value against these guys can be very profitable you need a bigger stack for this , with these 20bb stacks a hand like 77-88 are raising hands on late position instead of limping but also we can't play 22-66 or sevens in mp1 and it goes on.

      the rule is call 20 , since we have 20bb stack is borderline for doing this (assuming we see a flop everytime) , 90% of the time our stack is below 20bb , so it's not profitable.
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,467
      easy fold preflop

      and do NOT limp pocketpairs

      if you do it (and have a decent samplesize) look it up in the elephant if these hands were proftitable.

      i would take large bets that they arent ;)