Skrill pulling out of Canada.

    • Necrophagist
      Necrophagist
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 132
      Skrill is pulling out of the Canadian market, Titan poker threatened to pull out of the Canadian market and changed their mind at the last moment. What exactly is going on?
      This is worrisome. As a Canadian poker player I feel my time may be short-lived.


      Can Pokerstrategy shed any light on the situation? I did a bit of research and I cannot find any new laws or reason for the trend.
  • 33 replies
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Yeah I am starting to feel the same too.

      First I was getting worried about titan poker leaving and now the news of skrill leaving is making me become worried again.

      I've used Skrill before to deposit at 888 so it does affect me somewhat. What concerns me is what others will follow after this?

      Online checking accounts pulling out or not accepting money from "gambling" sites? Because that's how I withdraw my money.

      Prepaid mastercards (except vanilla) not accepting deposits on gamblings sites and visa too.

      Crazy.....
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      I just got the same... and like maythany I cannot find anything about any new or proposed legislation in Canada.

      PokerStrategy - it is time to let your news hounds loose and cover this important story for your Canadian players... what is influencing this decision? (I understand you may not want to get into specifics about any of your business partners... but pointing to a piece of legislation in general and discussing how that influences the industry in an unbiased way would be more than warranted and certainly appropriate.)
    • QooQoo
      QooQoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2013 Posts: 131
      Yes we'd love some light on this. Does PS have a Skrill contact? Can you guys ask about how this affects Pokerstars and just give us a very clear example to avoid confusion.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Originally posted by Ramble
      I just got the same... and like maythany I cannot find anything about any new or proposed legislation in Canada.

      PokerStrategy - it is time to let your news hounds loose and cover this important story for your Canadian players... what is influencing this decision? (I understand you may not want to get into specifics about any of your business partners... but pointing to a piece of legislation in general and discussing how that influences the industry in an unbiased way would be more than warranted and certainly appropriate.)

      Yes we'd love some light on this. Does PS have a Skrill contact? Can you guys ask about how this affects Pokerstars and just give us a very clear example to avoid confusion.
      +1
    • doublelucky
      doublelucky
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2008 Posts: 43
      if i'm not wrong, PokerStar used to have bank directly transfer to Canadians, so can we or PokerStrategy ask Star to reopen this cash out method?
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      I have deposited using skrill to my pokerstars account too.

      I'm sure we are all aware of the "cashout back to original deposit option" policy stars has so when skrill leaves how will I be able to cashout my money if I decide to?
    • QooQoo
      QooQoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2013 Posts: 131
      Originally posted by maythany
      I have deposited using skrill to my pokerstars account too.

      I'm sure we are all aware of the "cashout back to original deposit option" policy stars has so when skrill leaves how will I be able to cashout my money if I decide to?
      ^ mainly this is on my mind, as well as others i'd assume. hopefully someone at PS will ask for us, if not by tomorrow I guess one of us has to try asking ourselves? (if so please post up results here)
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Originally posted by QooQoo
      Originally posted by maythany
      I have deposited using skrill to my pokerstars account too.

      I'm sure we are all aware of the "cashout back to original deposit option" policy stars has so when skrill leaves how will I be able to cashout my money if I decide to?
      ^ mainly this is on my mind, as well as others i'd assume. hopefully someone at PS will ask for us, if not by tomorrow I guess one of us has to try asking ourselves? (if so please post up results here)
      Hey I emailed pokerstars support twice 5 hours ago and no reply yet??? WTH?

      Normally they reply in 1-2 hours.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      Originally posted by maythany

      Hey I emailed pokerstars support twice 5 hours ago and no reply yet??? WTH?

      Normally they reply in 1-2 hours.
      I am guessing that they don't know either.

      I have a bit of a problem in that my only tracked room left can ONLY be accessed by Skrill.

      So unless their support people can ensure me that I can get funds in and out of there I'll have to leave.

      The untracked room is PokerStars, and when I last checked, it was possible to move money to and from PokerStars and an account at a Canadian Bank.

      So make sure that whatever room you are playing on has a way of getting the funds back to you!

      --VS
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      I had sent a very respectful e-mail to Skrill asking them if they could shed a bit of light on what drove their decision. Just point me to some general legislation or a change in the business environment, something, anything... This was the response I got:

      Thank you for contacting Skrill Customer Service.

      We would like to inform you that we are not in a position to provide you with some more detailed information about our decision to cease our future gaming/gambling transactions for the Canadian residents (merchants and regular customers). We do apologize for this inconvenience.

      Please note that this decision is based on our current company's policy and it is final and indisputable.

      In that case we strongly advise you to get in touch with the specific gaming/poker/gambling merchants in Canada directly and negotiate different payment options with them.

      Should you have any further questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact us back. We will be happy to assist you.


      My response back to them...

      Thank you for responding so quickly and for your recommendation to negotiate different payment options with my merchants.

      I understand that this decision is based on company policy, and that it is final and indisputable.

      What I do dispute is that Skrill is not in a position to provide more detailed information. I believe that the company is choosing not to, and from a customer service point-of-view there is a big difference.

      Skrill is choosing to end its gambling payment business with Canadian Customers - which is the company's right.
      I am choosing to end all of my business with Skrill and encourage as many as I can (both within and outside of Canada) to do the same - which is my right.


      Falling on deaf ears, but I strongly encourage anyone considering Skrill as an option to choose another company. If they'll do this to Canadians with no justification, your country could be next.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      Thanks for that, Ramble

      I have just sent the following email to InstaDebit:


      Good Morning,
      I play on line poker as a hobby.

      I have an account at William Hill poker, and in the past I used Skrill (Moneybookers) to deposit there.

      Skrill has announced that very soon, they will no longer accept money transfers to or from gaming sites for Canadian residents.

      Before I go to all the trouble of opening an InstaDebit account, may I ask whether I will be able to make deposits to gaming sites using InstaDebit using a Canadian Bank Account?

      Also, what about the other direction.
      From time to time I withdraw the excess funds from the poker rooms.

      Will I be able to move funds from the poker room to InstaDebit?

      Thanks,
      Best of luck to us all!
      --VS
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      Now THAT was fast...

      Their reply.

      Thank you for contacting us at INSTADEBIT.

      Please go to http://www.instadebit.com and click on the sign up.

      You must register a Canadian currency bank account.

      You can use your Instadebit account to deposit into a merchant site and withdraw from the merchant to go back to your Instadebit account.

      Please feel free to contact us back for any further assistance.


      Please feel free to contact us at support@instadebit.com with any further questions.

      Regards,

      Tammy W
      I suspect it may be an auto-response, so I'll keep you posted.
      Since the reply doesn't really answer my concerns about poker/gaming, I sent a request for clarification.

      Regards,
      --VS
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      Once again, a near-instantaneous reply:


      Hello,

      Thank you for contacting us at INSTADEBIT.

      INSTADEBIT is a secure online payment option that lets you make payments to merchants directly from your bank account.
      You can use your INSTADEBIT account for Bingo, Casinos and Poker sites using your bank account.

      Once you have created an INSTADEBIT you are given a 7 day rolling limit.

      Please feel free to contact us back for any further assistance.
      However, I also found this thread on the forum, relating to InstaDebit and Canadians.

      So, it looks like the best advice is to contact each individual poker room and find out EXACTLY what transactions each room will and will not accept.

      I have deja vue all over again.
      I went through this whole scenario before getting a Skrill account.


      My plan -- assuming all my rooms accept Instadebit -- is to do the following:
        Decide which rooms I want to keep.
        Create an InstaDebit account and tie it to my Poker Bankroll account
        Make a deposit to each room using the InstaDebit account
        For rooms I choose to abandon, withdraw all funds to InstaDebit
        Make a deposit to each remaining from Skrill until it is drained completely.
        Hope and pray that the same nonsense doesn't repeat itself in a year.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Message I got from Stars.
      Hello Maythany,

      Thank you for your e-mail.

      Please be advised that cashouts are first processed back to the method used to deposit whenever possible. Within each deposit method, cashouts are then applied back to your oldest deposit first and your most recent deposit last. When applying cashouts back to previous deposits, cashouts are converted to the currency your previous deposits were processed in.

      As you have used Skrill Moneybookers to deposit in the last 6 months, we have cross-referenced your request with all deposits you have made. We have automatically credited cashouts back to your accounts up to the amount purchased. Once the full initial amount purchased has been credited back to this method, you can cashout your winnings via the method of your preference.

      For more details on our cashout policy, please visit:

      http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/cashouts/

      In relation to your expressed concern about not being able to cashout via Skrill in the near future, please be aware that at the moment you are able to initiate a deposit or cashout via Skrill in your PokerStars account. However, Skrill will no longer be available in our cashier to Canadian players as of December 31st for deposits, and as of January 30th for cashouts.

      PokerStars offers a variety of alternative deposit and casout options for our Canadian players. These include (but are not limited to) Entropay and InstaDebit.

      Should you have any questions regarding your Skrill account (i.e. account status, balance, future merchant availability, etc) please contact Skrill directly.

      If you may need anything else do not hesitate to contact us.

      Regards,

      Irena M
      PokerStars Support Team


      It sucks that they're not going to be accepting gambling transactions anymore and eventually we all will move on from this little surprise.

      It's funny, in the past few days I've learned that Titan was leaving Canada (now back), and now skrill not accepting gambling transactions anymore.

      I wonder what will come in the near future? What chain of events will follow after this? and what will be the end result?

      We all know what happened in the movie "2012".

      Maybe I'm just speculating too much lol.

      I hope the message I got from PS was helpful to any of you guys reading this post.

      Take Care,

      Maythany
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,209
      Hey maythany,

      Thanks so much for posting that. I'm sure that will ease a few minds

      Regards

      Laz
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      Hahaha... Full Tilt and Pokerstars are run as seperate companies my ass!

      I got a reply back from Full Tilt this afternoon that is word for word the exact same as your PokerStars reply maythany!!!

      Incidentally, the reply I got from Pokerstars was absolute rubbish saying that I should have no problem depositing or withdrawing using Skrill... i guess my e-mail was tl;dr... :rolleyes:


      I think I may have a paranoid conspiracy theory about why Skrill is pulling out. If you are in to that kinda zany stuff read the spoiler, otherwise ignore it...

      A couple of weeks ago I was listening to the radio and heard about an American law passed in March 2010 called FATCA - Foreign Account Tax Compliant Act... The long and short of it is that the Americans are bullying the rest of the world's financial companies to supply them with information about anybody that may be in a position of owing taxes to the U.S. government - this would be any US citizen living abroad, anyone with dual citizenship or a green card, their spouses, people with ff-shore accounts, etc.. The problems with this are many fold:1) Foreign Financial institutions don't know which of their clients fall into this category2) The cost of figuring this out, and providing that information to the U.S. government is at the cost of the financial institution.3) In many countries this would be illegal as it would be an invasion of their clients privacy rights and open them up to civil and criminal charges.

      4) If the foreign financial companies do not comply, any American institution dealing with them is supposed to impose a 30% withholding tax on all transactions as a penalty for not complying. I can't imagine that there are too many financial institutions that don't have a large part of their investments and transactions tied into the American business sector, and not too many transactions where a 30% penalty is going to be worth the cost of doing business.

      I'm not sure when other countries are supposed to comply, but Canada is looking to comply by July 2014. So my guess is that if Canada is one of the first countries to kneel before the American pressure maybe foreign financial companies that do business here are just deciding to get out and buy themselves some time before facing huge business costs to comply, open themselves up to legal issues and deal with possible penalties if they don't...


      There is also another theory on 2+2 about Skrill trying to get in good with the New Jersey and Nevada state departments by "getting tough" on Canadians, which in the long run is small business compared to the potential American market if other states start opening up online poker.


      Anyways, whatever... :tongue:
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      It is entirely possible for one owner to have two companies that operate at arm's length, yet still share some infrastructure.

      I'm going to have a shot at InstaDebit.

      I'm going to try to do it without actually having Skrill send me the money directly, since that will trigger a fee.

      So I'm going to take the balance I have on Skrill, and make deposits -- and take advantage of any bonuses I can get.

      From then on, all cashouts will go to InstaDebit

      I *think* -- but have not yet confirmed -- that before one can cash out to InstaDebit, one needs to make at least one deposit using InstaDebit

      I've also emailed the two rooms I'm going to keep.

      I have not heard back from either, yet, but I suspect it will be much the same as the one maythany posted.

      One thing I will say -- I've never yet seen faster response to an email that today with InstaDebit.

      I was impressed.
      --VS
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      It is entirely possible for one owner to have two companies that operate at arm's length, yet still share some infrastructure.
      Yeah, I was being a bit cheeky there... there are endless examples of "independent" organizations that are not really independent under review... Canada's media outlets (tv, radio, print) being a prime example.

      I am looking at InstaDebit as well, only problem is accounts at credit union are under my wife's name so need to look into that a bit further to see if that will be a problem...
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,907
      Originally posted by Ramble
      Yeah, I was being a bit cheeky there... there are endless examples of "independent" organizations that are not really independent under review... Canada's media outlets (tv, radio, print) being a prime example.

      I am looking at InstaDebit as well, only problem is accounts at credit union are under my wife's name so need to look into that a bit further to see if that will be a problem...
      That is hilarious. I was thinking of exactly the same thing -- easy since I work for a division of Postmedia.

      I got a long, detailed reply from PokerStars today.
      I'll condense it:
        You can deposit from Skrill to PokerStars until Dec 31 2013
        You can withdraw from PokerStars to InstaDebit even if the money did not come from InstaDebit [b]HOWEVER[/B] in order to cash out to InstaDebit, you must have made at least 1 depost from there in the past six months.
        Cashouts may be subject to a documentation check.

      There was one -- well, actually 3 -- interesting paragraphs in the email I'll quote in full

      Please also considered the following facts. When you make a deposit via INSTADEBIT, the funds are immediately credited to your PokerStars account. Note that these funds can be withdrawn from your personal Canadian bank account any time after a successful deposit is completed. In some cases, for a number of reasons, banks do not honor these deposits and a return is sent to us.

      You are able to spend the uncleared deposits at the tables, however you may not cash out or request cash transfers, unless you have a balance that is greater than the total of your uncleared INSTADEBIT deposits. Any portion of your balance that is more than the total of your uncleared deposits, may be used normally including cashouts and transfers.

      Furthermore, if an INSTADEBIT deposit is not honored by your bank, and is returned as unpaid, other restrictions will apply to future INSTADEBIT deposits. These restrictions may include not having access to all or part of your funds in your available balance; only until your current or future INSTADEBIT deposit(s) clear. Please consider these restrictions when depositing via INSTADEBIT and note that other deposit methods are not affected by these limitations.

      They also sent me a link to http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/instadebit/

      It looks like it would be a good idea to review any rooms full terms and conditions before deciding on a course of action.

      Best regards,
      --VS

      Pleaee review and verify any and all information you use to make your decisions. Your bankroll is at stake
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