30+ BI downswing?! straight...

    • Oreguru
      Oreguru
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 3
      I just feel like the more i study about poker the more i suck...
      Got starting capital, first played like 5sngs a day only. If I had bad beat streak and lost all 5 i just said "today is a bad day" , and didnt play till next day.
      This way slowly but surely was going up from 50$ starting capital, got to 58..after got down to 54, then back to 58 and so on, never fell lower than 50 br.
      After decided , ok i read more from strategy guide as bronze member, slowly but surely going to silver, more strategy, more videos nice..
      Started reading some books.
      One day played 1000+ hands, well, i played 9 hours straight with small brakes, always was fighting between 50-55 br.
      Losing, getting it back, losing again, getting back, and so on..
      After started playing 2 sngs at time, was ok win/lose rate, still break even or profit.
      And so, after 2 days of breaking even, playing same SnGs, studying poker, learning..
      I just... 30+ BI downswings... like,straight..not even 2 or 3rd place, not to mention 1st.
      Like 10 times out of 30 i finished 4th because in push or fold stage opponent was just getting river luck :( or just had low pair like 22 33 beating AKs AJo AQs...
      I got killed by 23 calling my allin with KK and getting triples...
      and thats on push-fold stage...

      Got my bankroll to 30$ ... was hoping to win 2 sngs as i was good chip wise and around 4-5 ppl left at table, but then got called by some random rags preflop to my AA and of course lost.

      Right now cant think of poker as anything else but gambling like roulette...
      I just feel so dimished and stomped.
      Feels like the more i study and play by the strategy the more i suck, or the opponents get stronger.

      Maniacs, luckers...
      whenever they win my AK or lets say KQ, with their rags, i said to myself "its just luck, who cares, they're gonna die in a long run..and im up for long run" .
      Now i just feel like "i cant deposit all the time waiting for this long run.." .

      And as the last chance, decided to play 1 more sng.. and quess what, yes, i get fullhouse on flop with my AK , chip leader now. See some rag on the hand, press fold and go to bathroom, come back - Sitout, press Im Back , didnt help.. i was marked sitout no matter what i do...

      Friend told me restart the poker, i did, and it didnt let me even login. I felt like it was just saying "its ok, you gave us enough money today, go away." or like the system is just trying to convince me to commit suicide :p

      Oh...and also i dunno if im too supestitious or what, but in 1 sng, 10 first flops and turns had 4 diamonds..always, and quess what? I never had a single diamond on hands at those games, and by the end of those 10 diamond flush games, i was out already with my AA :P ...

      Sorry for long post. Just writing this to myself to hope tomorrow will be better... ;( ;( ;(
  • 15 replies
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      I'm feeling your pain.. currently on a 16bi downswing on $12 sng's...

      It's kinda strange when nothing seems to work..

      I was just thinking the same way you were few days ago :)

      Take a break for a few days untill you've forgotten the bad run... Or try something new maybe sss or fixed limit or something...

      Atleast try to get your mind off the downswing before you start playing again :)

      You shouldn't be playing more sng's in the next days imo... Recent losses are going to affect your play and at least how you think... When you start to count how often the board has a flush posibility and you don't have one of that suit... Your tilting lol :)

      All I can say to you is take a break I know you need it :)
      And good luck :)

      After the night there's a brighter day
    • fun101rockets
      fun101rockets
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      Swings are part of the game. Things will get better
      I am currently on a 50 BI upswing!
    • Oreguru
      Oreguru
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 3
      thanks, ill try..
      its just so frustrating and its killing me.
      Like every sng i sign up to, is like "come on, please tell me I can beat those maniacs.." and then its "oops, sorry i get fullhouse on my 52o" ... and you stay with your AA KK QQ AK AQ whatever.. :o
      ok time for a break then .
      Im thinking to go to Fixed limits , but my bank roll just reminds me that i shouldnt change as its easier to lose there.
    • bogie
      bogie
      Global
      Joined: 23.09.2007 Posts: 109
      IVE BEEN ON A DOWNSWING FOR 7 MONTHS!!!! STILL NO END IN SIGHT....ARRRRRGH !, Im i stressed ? YES.
      Im i unlucky ? YES
      Ive re-loaded 4 times and im down to 20 BI again...... FRUSTRATING !!!!!

      Do i have faith in the strategy.......YES
      Do i have faith in my ability............YES

      Will my luck change ?...........YES( i hope ? and soon !),cos im broke..lol :P

      keep going and stick to the strategy.
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      SnGs have higher variance then ring games, tourneys even more so. For beginners I strongly recommend SSS. If you have played poker before and have enough experience then play whatever you like. SSS is good mindless fun and unless you deviate from the strategy it is near impossible to lose $50 at .1 blinds.

      For beginners: play 10k hands of SSS and you will have the poker basics down solid. Build a roll to $200 then play BSS, build a roll to $300, then try SnG... it will be a whole new game...

      -9 BI on NL10 SSS was the worst swing I had in over 5k hands, now the roll is over $150 and I am trying new limits.

      Right now I am teaching my wife to play SnG. The strategy is easy, easier if you are good at math, yet you really have to be on the ball... one mistake and you can be chummed out. She plays 2-3 tables at most and has the charts all layed out for easy reference. It is kind of interesting to watch an ultra-aggresive player try and teach patience to reach the bubble :D
      Quote: "chart says fold, but I would push all-in here" - she folds, villian flops a boat, we laugh.

      I can reach the Bubble in $2 SnG nearly everytime, it is very easy, unless I get chummed out. EG: K3o in freeplay, SB completes, flop K73 rainbow, SB check, I bet, call, turn blanks, SB check, I bet, call, river blanks, SB check, all-in, call. SB has K7o. Thats not right I think... the next game the VERY SAME SITUATION, only this time the donkey turns over KJ, thats what I expect, and more often than not, you win these cases.

      It is entirely up to you, but if SnG is costing you money it might be time for a change-up until you can find your leaks. I understand you are taking bad beats, it happens, do you notice when you suck out too? (I went all-in with AT on the bubble, get called by AJ and suck out a T on the river, redemption I think to myself) At the same time I know that you have leaks in your game, and unless you identify them, the beats will continue. Attend coachings and post hands in the forum. Keep your chin up, losers just keep losing, thats a simple fact of life... 6th virtue of a poker player is "Healthy Optimism"

      Only chum lament bad beats, good poker players simply play on.
    • Puciek
      Puciek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      As i did my 20+bi downswing (ended to be -24 before i managed to jump off the ground) i strongly suggest trying something else. Be it, omaha, razz just something you will do for pure fun (low stakes PL omaha works fine for me), eventualy it don't have to be poker related at all, what you must do is take a break.

      Also i didn't see you post any hands in hand evaluation, so i guess it may not be pure bad luck up there :)
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      i think that SSS for beginers is not that good to learn poker... coz all u should do is wait to top 10hands and after the flop u are 90% of time pot comitent.... so u learn nothing ... playing SSS on low limit can be very stresfull for news players coz enemy will not accept their raises so u are very often called with many oponents

      position play? ... u play acording some stupid charts... those charts are well known so u are probably not be able to beat higher limits coz your oponnets will read u like a book...

      u will not gian any reads of your opponents ...every single player who played more than 1000hands can tell that if u have KK AA QQ your reading ability fell down coz you think only that "is my hand good or not?" 50:50 ... i played lots of hands and i can tell you is realy hard to read opponent when u have shortstack and you holding AA KK ...so you learn nothing

      i was starting to play sng by 50$ starting capital... i burned it in 2 moths coz bad BRM,Learning process,friends who dranked me :rolleyes: ...

      i decided to play it right so i was finding friends to play coz i want 50$ of TAF programme ... so it took me 3 months to earn 50$ from TAF.... but 3 months i was learning,reading books,articles,watch every video on youtube...

      they give me second chance 50$+60$bonus starting capital and now im up to 2400$ after 3 months of grinding low stakes sng and building BR


      so conclusion... i think your first 50$ capital should be spend to learning proces and after that u should find 100$ somwhere and try real thing .... that was my story if u will be sucesfull with your 50$ starting capital i can only be proud of you


      ps .... im having 30BI downswing every 200-400games so dont be scared...it is part of game ... if u play a lot u will earn a lot
    • Puciek
      Puciek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      Actualy SSS will test theyr discipine (which is crucial in poker), if they're not patient enought to play top 5% of hands, you will never be good poker player because you must be disciplined to play good poker.
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      disciplin? in every fuking second article/video is writted u should play tight... you dont need to play SSS To learn that ... that was one of shitiest argument...


      if u have brain u learn that in one hour.... another 100hour u find yourself bored to death playing SSS and learning nothing....

      yes u will be one day biggest player at world coz u playing 10starting hands...and u probably never play after turn...

      you will learn only half of game .... coz u game end after flop coz in SSS after flop are only 2 decesion= move near all in or fold.... you will not gain eny experience playing turn and river...


      and the end ... playing SSS for totaly new players can be their first and last week of playing poker coz it is just grinding ...there is no beuty of playing poker or ICM or etc ...defending hands ...

      when they starting to play i advise them to play low limits sng or medium stack cash game to learn somthing...


      you can say me anything u want i will never accepted that SSS is good to learn basic of poker.. u will find yourself only in tilt coz of bad beats or stupid cals becouse matematicali when u get called with 4 oponents at low stakes cash game ... your premium hands like AA geting 80% of time get beaten.

      SSS is good for multitabeling like 8+ tables but you never find new player playing more than 2 tables at one time.... takes me 2 month to start playing more then 2 tables.
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      whatever i dont care anymore... it is my opinion how to start playing if u think that im wrong i cant do anything about that
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575
      that just awful that you're having such a big downswing will you are just trying too building you're bankroll :( . unfortunatly those things happen, hope for you it won't last much longer. In the meantime try watching some video, re-read the articles follow choachings post hands and study hands posted by other players. This way can learn to play even better poker.

      @ miskokvo: SSS isn't bad to learn a disciple there are a lot of beginner players that have trouble trowing a way a hand. This way they can learn cheap too have the disciple too wait for hands, too have the disciple too follow bankroll management and will eventually learn how too deal with downswing. But I do agree with you that SSS is a boring strategy that doesn't really let you think for youreself. I personally would also advise SnG's for beginners, more fun and will learn better too play good poker. But SSS is indeed great for multitabling and clearing bonusses :D .
    • bogie
      bogie
      Global
      Joined: 23.09.2007 Posts: 109
      THERE ARE WINNERS AND THERE ARE LOSERS..........I AM THE LATER !!!!
      for someone to win,some-body has to lose.

      "FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION"
      [issac newton]
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575
      @ bogie: well that is a view on it. And with that additude you will never be a winner. My view on it is that some maybe appear luckier then others but that luck will even out in the long run. And with luck evened out the only difference of you and you're opponent is the edge you aquire by studiing and playing the game.
    • bogie
      bogie
      Global
      Joined: 23.09.2007 Posts: 109
      @ sirilidion : i'm not complaining, as its making me a better player already,my downswing has started straight from the off ,practically!,Im a loser now but my time will come.As for those who start off great,they will eventually fall . ITS A TEST THAT WE ALL HAVE TO PASS.









      "FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION"
      [ISSAC NEWTON]
    • Oreguru
      Oreguru
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 3
      Thanks for all replies guys.
      Well... from the post time, next day took a small break, and decided to play a bit and see how luck turns out.
      Well, it turned out awful, and i lost another 10 BIs ...
      I was like "WTF?!"
      i didnt take it to play lower 1$ sngs, as it would be a maniacs maraphon.

      down to 5$, decided to play on 5$ Heads up and decide if its the end of my poker life or if its just beginning .Thats how I put it to myself "all or nothing".
      Won. Didnt play that day anymore.
      Another day took a break, concentrated my mind, got away from everything.

      After, another "all or nothing" played 10$ double up SnG.
      Won, got to 20$ , played 2 cash tables at same time with 1$ at each. Got 5$ profit and left.

      Also another day, first hand of the day i get 56 hearts, i think "thats definetly it..." and i call, get straight, win , chip leader in SnG.
      Also met one guy from same "language group" , and kinda teamed up with him on Titan, well..the time i met him my downswing started lol.
      Played tables together, i guess thats illegal to do? But oh well :( anyway i lost and got tilted.

      So basically, I was playing "all or nothing" on 10$ and 20$ , basically as I was mentally damaged after getting down under my 50$ starting(as first week i was never falling down, break even or profit). Now got to 72$ , and stopped this "All or nothing" pure luck madness at higher limit Double Ups.
      But they sure helped to restore my mental state.
      Now Im so hyped about learning...
      Like, last 20$ double up, I learned such a thing.

      Short stack all-ins, and chip leader types - I like this hand, i have a feeling about it. and he calls.
      shortstack AKo versus 53s , and flop is rags, giving 53s straight and straight flush draw at the same time. Thats when i knew i got my BR to 70$ , was happy.


      Cant learn to play agressive on push-fold, as 29o or some hands like this just kill me mentally when I imagine going allin against every single pocket pair. Hard lesson to learn, cant overcome my fear.

      Anyway, thanks for posting, seems like i survived my Downswing, and got reanimated.

      Also yes, it wasnt all pure bad beat, of course I analysed myself and found it quite stupid calling all ins when i was 100% sure he has 22-TT pocket pair, and i was AK,AQ,AJ, KQ KJ ...

      Learning hard way.

      Thanks for support, also now got to silver , new stuff to learn and read.

      And yes, it helped me to play cash tables after SnG straight downswing.
      Try to play a bit cash tables, or something else, helps to get your mind off, when youre on a big SnG downswing.

      Thanks again, and sorry for huge post, just feel like sharing :)