red line consistently down

    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      just noticed something about my red line I normally play 10nl nlhe fr my red line is consistently down by the same amount .5c per hand my usual session is 200 hands and I am usually down $10 overall I am $120 down over 24000 hands
      I am still a beginner
      so is this leak is it normal for a beginner
      anybody have any ideas?
  • 23 replies
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
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      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Yeah it's perfectly normal for beginner strategy. However, in order to improve your winrate you must work on your non-showdown winnings. (You don't need your red line to o steady up, but slowing it down or making closer to break even will give you better winrate).
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      -50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      I think he means 5bb/100 which is nothing to be concerned about imo
    • Alan883
      Alan883
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      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Hey seacat22,


      Here is great article wirtten by one of our coaches: The Red-Line Myth

      Take a look at it and maybe you will find all answers about red line.


      -50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right


      just noticed something about my red line I normally play 10nl nlhe fr my red line is consistently down by the same amount .5c per hand my usual session is 200 hands and I am usually down $10 overall I am $120 down over 24000 hands


      i think he means that he is 0.5c down every hand and not 5c. So he looses like 5bb/100 hands without showdowns which is not that bad. Actually it is pretty good.

      Of course if he looses 50bb/100 this is very bad but i am pretty sure this is not the case.
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
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      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      -50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right
      Re-read OP he said .5 (.5=0.5) :)
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
      what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
      ( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)
    • Johnis
      Johnis
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      Joined: 23.07.2009 Posts: 77
      Originally posted by seacat22
      thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
      what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
      ( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)

      You are a nit, thats why your redline is going down. You don't 3bet bluff preflop enough, don't cbet bluff enough, fold blinds too often. Or, it could be that you bluff in earlier streets and give up on later streets.

      EDIT: It does not mean that you are playing bad though. My redline in NL10 and NL25 was going down as well, as I was playing mostly for value, as a lot of people don't fold enough, so there is no point in bluffing.
    • Alan883
      Alan883
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      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Please just don't go crazy. FR game is full of tight guys and you have to be nitty. You have to work very hard on your game.

      Don't sacrifice ever your green line just because you want nicer red line. Green line is the only line that counts. Work on your game, spot your leaks and work hard to reduce them to minimum. But don't ever do things because you want your red line nicer.
    • Alan883
      Alan883
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      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Originally posted by seacat22
      thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
      what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
      ( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)
      This is not necessary a leak. Just go step by step. It is not easy just to say you fold to much or you don't bluff enough. Regarding set mining it is really easy rule to follow i am pretty sure you are familiar with. It is called CALL20 rule. Of course we don't need to always stick to it but in general it is ok.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Ah -5bb/100 is perfectly normal at any stakes
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Originally posted by seacat22
      thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
      what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
      ( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)
      I think one of the biggest factors is probably folding too much to steals. But with 24k hands it might be worth posting your stats for others to comment on, maybe you'll get more of an idea then.

      edit: But like NightFrostaSS and others have said its perfectly normal to have that kind of red line.
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      sorry if I was not clear and caused some confusion
      here are the figures red line lost $120 in 24000 hands
      so that is 0.5 per hand x100 =50 cents per 100
      if a big blind is 10 cents then it is 5bb/100




      You are a nit, thats why your redline is going down. You don't 3bet bluff preflop enough, don't cbet bluff enough, fold blinds too often. Or, it could be that you bluff in earlier streets and give up on later streets.

      All very true :f_grin:



      alan for link to article some interesting and well made points in
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      would be happy to post stats if you could tell me which ones are relevant
    • Alan883
      Alan883
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      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      If you use HM2 i think it would be useful to send us your overall stats (with call 3bet% and fold 3bet % included) + positional stats.
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      thats great I use pt4 so I will do that tomorrow as it very late here and my boss says it is time for bed
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      Here are the stats as promised I hope someone can spot something in them
      if you think any others are relevant I will try and get them

      POSITION HANDS VPIP PFR BB/HAND 3BETPF 4BET+ CALLPF3BET PFSQUEEZE
      BTN 3000 26 20 0.11 2.68 0.77 15.7 3
      CO 3000 15 12 0.14 1.7 5.3 22 2
      MP 7000 11 8 0.13 1.6 4 31 1.5
      EP 5000 8 7 0.0 1.4 16 45 0
      BB 3000 17 7 -0.45 6 2 5 3
      SB 3000 26 21 -0.16 6 1 11 2

      CBETFLOP CBET TURN
      BTN 68 35
      CO 56 35
      MP 56 32
      EP 50 42
      3BETSTEAL FOLD TO 3BETSTEAL
      BB 63 40 12 75
      SB 58 63 13 82
    • seacat22
      seacat22
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      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 282
      sorry the stats appear in a mess it is not displaying what I am typing as I am putting in lots of spaces to line numbers under headings I have tried to correct this a few times but when I press review it defaults to everything being squashed up to the left margin
    • dannywratten
      dannywratten
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      Joined: 11.05.2010 Posts: 1,462
      You could try screenshotting your stats on PT4, then upload it to an image hosting site like imageshack or tinypic & paste the link here :)
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
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      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      my red line is always higher than my blue line.

      I am basically break even with regards to my red line but down quite a lot by my blue line. Im not sure if this is to do with being sucked out on a lot, going on crazy tilt and not playing my A game or just calling down with the worst hand too much. I suppose it is a mixture of all 3.

      I figure if I can improve my showdown winnings I will be a big winner, as until recently my red line was +ev and is only slighly below now.

      I play NL2/NL5

      I have started a bankroll challenge for 2014 on full tilt, I started with $40 and as I was down $50 on NL2 Full tilt last year my goal is to get that back first and turn it into $25 profit at that limt then I will be rolled enough to start playing NL5. I am losing 10bb/100 over 24k hands.

      Opinions on how to go forward anyone?
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