Quit Poker?

    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      I just want to listen to some opinions about my current situation because I am basically emotionally broken right now

      Im just gonna do a short version in form of what is going on in myself right now:
      +Im a Student living in Berlin ( Germany )
      +I am gaining some extra Money through playing Poker on Pokerstars
      +I utterly just love Poker. I love the Game I love the dynamics and I always wanted to be good and to improve in my game.( I would always get back my fun in this game)


      -I am running 24.456$ Under EV since january 2013
      -I just got broke after tilting and then in the final hand got sucked out to
      -I am actually totally broke in reallife too. Gotta lend some money of my Girlfriend to pay my bills

      I have the option to Grind it back because I have someone who would Stack me. But I just dont know If I can handle it anymore to run even more under EV. You have to Consider that I was playing NL100.
      And I could also work at a local store for pretty much breakeven the month

      Did any of you guys ever stand for such a decision? And did anyone of you ever run that bad over 12 months or even more


      Now the Question should I quit poker forever and just work in a normal job or just hang in there and try it again and again and again until this Game stops sucking me out.
  • 21 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Hi there,

      Sorry to hear that you are having such emotional situation atm :( It's never nice to hear that someone is having hard time.

      Generally I think you have two options here:

      1. Quit poker. Do some normal work and earn small amounts of money.
      2. Fix your tilt problem.

      I would think you should take a break now, lets say for 1-2 months, and then try to get into that problem number 2. Poker can be emotionally very hard and it might demand a lot of effort. It seems like you are having a hard time right now anyway so it's better to keep a break.

      You have also been a winning player, though running a lot under EV. You just shouldn't look at that EV graph as it is in many ways a rigged way to measure one's game. It doesn't tell always completely whether you played good or your opponents' played bad.

      Just keep a break and try to hold solid bankroll management. Use Tilt breaker application. It helps you, too. You don't have to quit poker if you are a winning player - just take a new apporach and study the emotional aspect of the game. We all do have some problems with it from time to time, but the thing separating a winning player and winning player usually is the way the control their emotions.

      Just my 2 cents. Wish you all best! :f_grin:
    • Frannie1969
      Frannie1969
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.12.2013 Posts: 21
      hi Kanonschlag,

      I'm so sorry to read this story....
      I would love to say that you should continue playing but to be fairly honest to you I must say...."Take at least a break!"
      I think that in the state you're in right now it's almost impossible (for anyone!) to be able to play a decant hand of poker which means to me that the chance of winning hands is much less than when you would be in your normal state.

      I could give some more examples but....I think that this alone is already reason enough to take at least a break and give it another try when you feel a lot better!

      I wish you the best with the decision you make,

      Sincerely yours,
      Twistie11
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,986
      Yikes! :f_eek: I'm sorry to hear that, mate.

      I believe you should concentrate on your real life debt first, everything else should take a back seat for now. I'd advise you to get a normal job for this. Even if you're an extremely good player, poker is simply no safe way to earn money, as I'm sure you know yourself by now.

      If you still love the game, I guess there is now reason to quit playing forever, but you should take a break for the time being. It is always irresponsible to gamble with money you can't afford to lose, even if you're playing with positive expectations.

      Also, are you sure you used proper bankroll management? You say you were playing NL100, it shouldn't be possible to suddenly go broke with a suitable bankroll for these limits.

      In any case, I sincerely hope you'll be able to get out of that predicament. Take care.
    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      I think you are right about that.

      The thing is I never was the guy tilting at all. I never destroyed anything or did was raging in online games whatsoever. I am a very calm guy. This is actually annoying me the most. This just isnt me. I am just so frustrated about myself and the game ):.

      Well I think I seriously gotta take a Break. Just relax and probably just do some things with my Girlfriend to distract me.

      Its just so weirdo to be totally different and even kinda realising it with a small part of yourself.

      Tiltbreaker is probably a good Idea but right now Im just gonna delete everything Poker software related ( HM2 excluded) or just hide it deep inside of my computer.

      Would u suggest me to avoide Pokerstrategy 2+2 and all that stuff too?

      Anyways thanks for those kind comments. Idk I never thought that I would get in such a mental stage through Poker ):
    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      Yeah I was using normal BRM until this big Tilt idk got like 10 suckouts one after another and than made the fault to Look at my Lifetime Graph of Pokerstars and just got mentally nuts



      IT should definitly not be possible and I always made good Money with poker yet alone through rakeback...
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Silver
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      You've got mindset issue for sure. Even the best players struggle with it, but it pays off big time once to can handle your mental state. Usually the your mental state is gonna be affected by quality of your play, or other IRL problems irrelevant to poker.

      Either sort your life problems out before you sit at the tables, or seek the problem within your game.

      I hope you sort your dept problems.

      Good luck!
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      There's so many different kinds of tilts and we do have videos here about them and how to cope with them.

      I myself used to have a problem like you have here. In real life I'm calm, but at one point I started to be a different person on poker tables. I myself thought that I should be better than the others and I ran way below EV, seeing the "fish" take my money all the time. It just didn't feel right and that affected my game a lot. I started to play wider ranges or barreling when I shouldn't. I could have lost my whole stack too, but then I took a break and thought about my future a lot. I didn't play for 3 months. Then I came back.

      During my break I worked with my mind-set; I can't take every pot, fish are really surviving only because you can't win every hand. I knew that I am running sometimes below EV a lot, because I make good decisions and THEY are playing against the odds. That's fine.

      About poker.. Total break would be good for a short while. Lets say you forget poker for 2 weeks at least, take time with your GF and stuff. Then you might take a quick look to our strategy articles (especially Psychology). You might think those concepts given in articles. Don't go to the tables yet. Try to understand those articles as well as possible and focus on something else.

      Then try your comeback. You must feel confident on tables and if you get frustrated after a short while, you haven't mastered your small mind-set issue - yet. But you can do it, there's plenty of examples even in our community about people who have overcome their problems.

      You can do it. But right now I think a small break is the best way to start!
    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      Thanks my depts arent that high luckily. It should be sorted out in the next two months.

      I think you are right Rihard I actually like your Blog very much.

      I just dont know how Highstakes poker players can handle this stuff :/,

      Well I will ask my friend if he is willing to stack me in exactly 3 months from now I think thats a good timing or I hope so.

      Edit: Thanks CPallo I think you are pretty much like me. Idk how I can be so different and I never thought my problems were that big but well they are. I probably just quit my Computer at all because it is FULL of poker related stuff I just have some essays on it but everything else is Poker related. My web browser is stuffed with it too :/.


      I just wanna thank you all. You just get me back to the rational person I am normally.

      So my Plan is a big Break and then working on my Mindset but first pay back my depts to my Girlfriend and get my life sorted. I just cant say how gracious I am about this because I seriously cant speak with anyone about it. My family thinks I am an total idiot anyways Playing poker although I told them so much :f_cry: .
    • Johnis
      Johnis
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2009 Posts: 77
      Once my professor in the university said: it is good to have a stable, safe income, before you become entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship is high connected with risk, as you usually invest your own capital and time in order to do produce something.

      One could argue, that this is applicable to poker as well. Since your returns on poker are not constant, it is just awesome to have a part time job to pay your rent and food. I would suggest you to get a part time job to pay your essential bills (essential means food and rent, no holidays, no parties, or gifts to your girlfriend), the job that doesnt require too much effort. Therefore you will be able to focus on your poker career better, as you will have less pressure to have a steady monthly income.

      Good luck man. One way or another, if you were that much involved into poker, I don't think you will quit. If you do, you will stop for a while and come back to it, im sure :)
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Silver
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy my blog! I apologize for my typing errors. It's pretty late and I am currently working on my University project. Messy, messy head... :f_eek:

      What really me helps to handle bad beats, at least for now as I how figured it out, is logical thinking when you feel that you are about to tilt. For example, you have AA and you get it in vs KK and flop obviously comes out 36Kr and your AA is cracked. So in the beginning I was tilting pretty easily when this happened, but what started to help me to handle tilt is realizing that this is just variance and I have done nothing wrong with my preflop decision! Hell yeah, I did the best move I could possibly do, I got it in as a favorite and that is what matters. Now I use this approach every session, and you know what? It works for me.. Yes, there is still small tilt here and there but at least now I don't bust half my roll anymore. I might even be down 10 BI's during my session, but I don't stop playing because I feel that I play good and that's what matters for me the most.

      Poker is game of edges, and mindset is one of those edges.

      And I believe that Highstakes pros approach this in similar way, all they care is about doing the right moves not the board run out or EV. EV is irrelevant to your decisions anyway. It only shows average how much could've won if you run the same situations multiple times.

      Grind hard

      Rihard
    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      I think your prof is right Johnis. And I think I couldnt stop playing poker for lifetime too. It is just sort of a addiction also I put so much time in it...


      Yeah I that was my approach to Rihard the problem was that I thought that I wouldnt be tiliting but actually I was tilting a little bit and that way to often and at the end this mental breakdown was the result. I seriously got to read some mindset books articles Strats to go back on Track

      Anyways I wish everyone of you that you need to do this experience.


      Good luck in the Grind Rihard I hope you will achieve what you want.

      Maybe the approach with the job and playing poker is good. Mh gotta think alot about everything I think. It never was the money which made me play poker but still it always was one of the best things next to it. My god why does that need to be so complicated.

      PS: Rihard quit PS and finish your University Project dude^^
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Silver
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064


      Recommend watching this film. It's like one of the worst yet funniest films ever done, initially it was meant to be drama but after it failed and got made fun of, the creators suddenly changed genre to comedy. :D

      This may increase your mood if you like epic-fail movies. :D

      Good luck man with your struggles!
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,891
      Hey Kanonschlag,

      I know where you're coming from man.

      In September (only 4 months ago) I was mentally shattered. I had got to the stage where I could no longer cope with extended periods of negative variance.

      For 10 days I would turn my computer on, mouse to the PokerStars icon and that was all. I couldn't physically force myself to click that icon without an overpowering feeling of dread.

      But I love poker and even though I couldn't play, I could still read and watch vids. So I kept coming back here and rereading strategy, rewatching videos and reading through the forums. In a way I was subconsciously trying to rebuild my game from the ground up.

      I happened to read a post on the 10th day of not being able to play where someone mentioned how much a book called "The Mental Game Of Poker" by Jared Tendler had helped him overcome his mindset problems.

      Facepalm time :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

      I have had that book for almost a year and had never got around to even looking at it. So I started to read and after about 20 pages the darkness that had been hanging over me for the previous 10 days was gone.

      I took a chance and moused to The PS icon and clicked it straight away, logged in and just regged for some random ST SnG.

      Third or 4th hand in I picked up KK on the BTN, A MP player opened, I 3Bet and he 4Bet shoved with QJs... easy call Flop K72r Turn 9 River T.

      I sat there stony faced. Couldn't believe it, I waited for the rage and waited and waited. There was none.

      Jared had talked about the residue left behind from previous sessions and how that builds until you hit your breaking point. That was exactly what had happened to me. I was now controlling my mind, not the other way around.

      I am not completely cured but I'm loving poker again. Also for the 1st time in my poker career I am not so focussed on climbing the limits. I don't even care if I spend the rest of my life bouncing around the micros.

      I will love every minute of it.

      GL and I hope you find your answers

      Laz
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,540
      dunno if stake is the best idea for you man, you rly need to regrind from like $50 to get back on track, teach yourself some discipline again :)

      playing staked is gay as it just adds to the pressure
    • Johnis
      Johnis
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2009 Posts: 77
      By the way, by getting a part-time job, I don't mean only to go and work as a cashier in the local supermarket. It can be anything which you are good at, even things connected to poker, like translating something from German to English for pokerstrategy.

      Keep in mind that the society views us as gamblers, so it is usually a good combo to have some kind of job, so that you pay some tax, play in the system in a way.

      I don't know how it works in Germany, but in Denmark there are a lot of ways to actually get government support... If you are lazy and don't have properties, you can be living on the government's funds... However, if you are a winning poker player and make constant cashouts, the government is probably going to realize that, since online poker is controlled in here.

      It may also be helpful to keep doing something outside of poker, since the employer might wanna know what you have been doing these 5-10 years after you graduated your school.
    • Kanonschlag
      Kanonschlag
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2011 Posts: 79
      Yeah I am in my first Semester of medicin Johnis I totally know what you mean and yes there is aid of the government but I am actually not taking this as a option because I just dont think that I need it that much that I deserve it('Proud kind off want to do it by myself and playing poker and taking money of the government would be wrong for my part.Just out of the Moral view). With the point of society you are right although Germany is kinda changing its view (my family will probably never)

      Idk either Lem0n I will see what I will do but I actually have no pressure on that one because the guy staking me is rich and is just doing it for fun and he always got a good profit out of it.

      @Lazza I think im gonna read this one thanks for your advice.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by Kanonschlag
      I just want to listen to some opinions about my current situation because I am basically emotionally broken right now

      Im just gonna do a short version in form of what is going on in myself right now:
      +Im a Student living in Berlin ( Germany )
      +I am gaining some extra Money through playing Poker on Pokerstars
      +I utterly just love Poker. I love the Game I love the dynamics and I always wanted to be good and to improve in my game.( I would always get back my fun in this game)


      -I am running 24.456$ Under EV since january 2013
      -I just got broke after tilting and then in the final hand got sucked out to
      -I am actually totally broke in reallife too. Gotta lend some money of my Girlfriend to pay my bills

      I have the option to Grind it back because I have someone who would Stack me. But I just dont know If I can handle it anymore to run even more under EV. You have to Consider that I was playing NL100.
      And I could also work at a local store for pretty much breakeven the month

      Did any of you guys ever stand for such a decision? And did anyone of you ever run that bad over 12 months or even more


      Now the Question should I quit poker forever and just work in a normal job or just hang in there and try it again and again and again until this Game stops sucking me out.
      24k below EV at NL100 means 240BI. Its near impossible to run this bad, the only logical explanation is that you are a BE/slight losing player on NL100 and that variance hit you hard (so you depend alot on rakeback). Judging by your post you have huge mental issue as well.

      Solution:
      - Find a normal job to cover your monthly expenses
      - With the extra money you made, start from a stake that you are a crushing player.
      - Build bankroll, invest in improving your (mental) game --> coaching
      - Have in your head that the upcoming 6-12 months your not going to make any money from poker, all money will be used as future "investment" on yourself by becoming a better player skill/mental wise and also have a proper BRM.

      PS. Girrafe p0rn or it didn't happen :D

      GL

      PS2. Wanna see some real variance?
    • TheMarxBros3
      TheMarxBros3
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 1,346
      When you are playing poker for a living it is no longer a game, it is a job and jobs are stressful at the best of times.

      I played poker for a living for a few years and I found the grind of having to win to pay the bills got to be to stressful and took all the fun out of the game.

      I got a full-time job and started playing recreationally for pocket change. The game became fun again. I was winning and using the extra money I won on frivolous things. I bought my kids stuff I would not have been able to do otherwise. I bought a new Ford mustang for myself. Stupid stuff but fun stuff.

      My point;
      Maybe playing for a living is causing you to much stress by having to win. Step back. Take a break and most of all play on someone else's money. By that I mean build a bankroll from scratch. Use poker for fun things to buy and do and not for a living until you are set up financially. In order to play with a proper mindset for a living you need the equivalent of 2 years living expenses in the bank. That way there is no pressure to have to win to eat.

      I love playing poker. It is by far the best bang-for-the-buck in my opinion, but you have to keep it fun.

      Good luck.
      You can do it. Just take small steps.
    • htghguuh
      htghguuh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2014 Posts: 149
      This is really sad :(
      Poker is an emotional game and i think you have let his effect your game .

      Yes take a break ,but do not give up,You could use this time for some well earned study and analyzing

      I know its tedious ,and while everyone seems too be having fun you are stressing.

      Do the bankroll management,give yourself 50 time buy in,its all there and here to read.

      I myself am no great poker player but gave myself an hourly rate.Its not massive but if i add it to my wages its xtra tax free income,Nothing like the money i want but it is progression that will make the way out off the micro stakes and higher and beaten backwards and forwards until it is correct.

      Hey man dont give up dont let this beat you, :)
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