ICM Trainer question

    • altkiki
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 82

      i'm trying to get into more details understanding ICM Trainer and what exactly the differences between similar situations really are. especialy regarding those marginal situations when sometimes a KQs call is right and sometimes it isn't.

      to be more precise i have these 2 situation ICM Trainer gave me, both have same conditions: there are 6 players on the table, with similar stacksizes, one player allin (BU) hero is BB.

      while in the first sample the hero calling range is suppose to be 9.2% (66+ A9s+ ATo+) in the second one it is 11% (66+ A7s A9o+ KQs). and what i'm trying to do here is understand what exactly is the difference between the first sample and the second one.
      so i'm thinking the key her might be the BU's pushing range. for some reason it is different, hence hero's calling range has to be different to. but i don't know why BU's pushing range is not the same.
      if we are talking about the same positions in both cases than that leaves me to only consider the stacksizes, wich in both cases is yet again similar ( meaning BU's stack is smaller than SB and BB). so what other details am i missing? how does the other opponent's stack affect the math and in what way?

      what do you guys think?

      for the rest of the info i didn't provide, i posted pictures with both samples.

      p.s. hero edge was set to 0%

      sample a

      sample b
  • 3 replies
    • tonypmm
      Joined: 11.01.2009 Posts: 3,799
      BTN is a bit shorter, so the blind pressure on him is a bit bigger and he has to push a bit looser as the blinds he picks when both opponents fold are more valuable relatively to his stack. As a result, he pushes wider (36.3% as opposed to 33.0%), so you (being a tad shallower too) are supposed to call wider.
    • altkiki
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 82
      yes, i think i overlooked an important factor. when i thought about the stacksizes, i focused so much on the relation between players stacks that i completely forgot about the stacksize in terms of big blinds.
      so thinking in terms of that corelation, yes the BTN i roughly 1 big blind shorter and that could affect his pushing range. but i think the hero's calling range however should be more dependent on BTN's pushing range rather than blinds/stack ratio, at least in this case, becouse hero's stack doesn't change much fromone sample to another, not even in terms of big blinds.
    • kurrkabin
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Hi guys!

      Well, it depends on both. What's his stack sizes and how wide he pushes. Here ICM tax is not as high due to the fact we are far from the bubble, but sometimes it will be a big factor, so then you have to consider not only effective stack sizes, but also how the stack set up is, as it will effect the risk aversion.

      You can't just look at the corelation between the stack sizes as you also get certain odds to make a call. Hence, if BTN has 1000 chips(5bb-not a threat for our tournament life-very low ICM tax) and pushes 35%, your call range is gonna be also somewhere around that, but in the situation above, you need to be much tighter.