VS Cbet, Check line OOP River range

    • LemOn36
      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,908
      Okay so a situation that happens always in HU, very often these days in 6MAX esp late position especially if you don't widely use a donking strategy on flop or turn oop

      You flat pre OOP, Check call flop, turn gets checked and you are faced with a river decision against a regular
      I was thinking about it today and would like your thoughts on how we should play that spot. Basically I'd take the same strategy on any standard non-paired board just adjust frequencies for possible ranges (e.g. backdoor draw getting there etc.)

      I think the thing about this spot at small stakes, pretty much 100% at 100 and below, people cap their range on turn and always bet hands they can go for 3 streets, and good draws. So I asked around and people usually say "do whatever, lead everything check fold hands that have sdv but can't call, sometimes check raise"

      Was thinking about this since its such a common spot and I'm not one of the dudes that 3b 15%, I like my flatting oop.

      And basically would take this strategy against unknown regulars or regulars without a glaring imbalance in their river play

      1) Hands we can value bet
      2) Hands without showdown value like - usually most of them as we don't rly float oop THAT wide without sd value I assume. If we do we can just decide based on our value combos
      1) nuts like sets+ etc.
      2) hands WITH showdown value that can't profitably call a bet
      - the amount of combinations of bluffs depends on
      A) our value combos
      B) How exploitable is villain - if he really caps his OTT range and top of his range is TPNK etc. and he's incapable of calling we can bluff all hands we checked (one extreme) or if hes a russian nonbeliever spazztard that snaps cause you rep narrow range and will fold only total air we can just make sure he's max breakeven by calling too much. Or we can simply treat more hands like weaker 2P, TPGK like the nuts and raise if thats the case and well get paid
      -hands that can't value bet but can call. If villain bets and/or folds to raise too much we can turn them into a bluff too if we think it will be higher ev than calling - but that goes into the glaring imbalance category

      HS example:

      Q1) Is this a sound approach?
      Q2) How do you usually play these spots?
      Q3) If I play this way, how would you exploit this strategy if you know I play it?
      (Assuming I decide to choose correct Value:Bluff ratio when I bet and check raise and call in-exploitable %of my range if you decide to raise my lead).
  • 2 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,367
      Hi, LemOn36

      What line I take turn and river depends so much on player type I'm playing against.

      I suspect that at the limits you play at, the player types have narrowed somewhat, and you don't see too many true nits, nor true maniacs. Possibly the calling stations are all gone too.

      Equity vs price is a big factor too.

      In short, I have no clue :coolface:

      Got me thinking on a Friday, though -- well done!

    • getdotacom
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 608
      I like betting almost 100% of our range OTR against more or less balanced opponents. They usually won't have much of a calling range there because they don't bet second pairs OTF and don't go for 2 streets betting flop and river. Obviously this is true only in case when board texture remains the same on all streets.

      Against players who likes to bet a lot OTF ( I mean cbet at least 60%) we need to take different lines. Still leading should be used most of the time, but checkraising sometimes is better. Lately I been experimenting with some extremely large checkraises ( sometimes even allin for 100bb). Not quite sure is it worth it, but at least it's more fun.

      Edit: The hand u posted - actually this is one of those spots where u could try allin checkraise. Basically your opponent is super capped and he knows that, so he's not folding Ax with decent kicker, but allin could change his mind. I'd actually c/c this hand.