Calling raiser and 3 bet from bb ?

    • seriousnow
      seriousnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2014 Posts: 6
      Hi all don't no if I may be leaking here I've been calling based on assumed vilains 3 bet position and range +pot ods, question is should I be playing cap or fold instead AK QQ+ which would be most proffitable thanks.
  • 14 replies
    • JLeitmotiv
      JLeitmotiv
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 756
      Originally posted by seriousnow
      Hi all don't no if I may be leaking here I've been calling based on assumed vilains 3 bet position and range +pot ods, question is should I be playing cap or fold instead AK QQ+ which would be most proffitable thanks.
      wutz?
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 923
      I kinda like it :f_thumbsup: not sure what it means really but it looks nice. So my answer is... no are you out of your mind I love it yes
    • Itsnevereasy
      Itsnevereasy
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2010 Posts: 381
      I kinda like it fish thumbsup not sure what it means really but it looks nice. So my answer is... no are you out of your mind I love it yes


      +1

      Def 'playing cap' imo.
    • zulusierra
      zulusierra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 326
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      To be fair, pretty much anything a human does is going to be exploitable :)

      Even pure strategies are exploitable to a degree, it's just very hard.
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by zulusierra
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
      tbh i must admit i don't understand OP question but if he means this then I would go for a cap or fold range and not for a cold call range simply because with a cold call range you don't have initiative leaving you in the dark on what is going on.
    • JLeitmotiv
      JLeitmotiv
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 756
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by zulusierra
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
      tbh i must admit i don't understand OP question but if he means this then I would go for a cap or fold range and not for a cold call range simply because with a cold call range you don't have initiative leaving you in the dark on what is going on.
      if the openraiser is a fishy tag, I'd go for a mixed strategy. I do however default cold call or fold here, as Newall suggests
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by JLeitmotiv
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by zulusierra
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
      tbh i must admit i don't understand OP question but if he means this then I would go for a cap or fold range and not for a cold call range simply because with a cold call range you don't have initiative leaving you in the dark on what is going on.
      if the openraiser is a fishy tag, I'd go for a mixed strategy. I do however default cold call or fold here, as Newall suggests
      Newall is an idiot then.
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by JLeitmotiv
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by zulusierra
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
      tbh i must admit i don't understand OP question but if he means this then I would go for a cap or fold range and not for a cold call range simply because with a cold call range you don't have initiative leaving you in the dark on what is going on.
      if the openraiser is a fishy tag, I'd go for a mixed strategy. I do however default cold call or fold here, as Newall suggests
      Newall is an idiot then.
      An idiot who's won 100's of 1000's of dollars, written 2 books, and is currently doing a PhD in Behavioral Economics :)

      And I play the same way :D
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by Boomer2k10
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by JLeitmotiv
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by zulusierra
      I have terrible english, but i think i got it. :)
      For example:
      BU open raises, SB 3bets, and you are in the BB?
      It's OK to cap or fold here, or you can cold call or fold with a slightly wider range.
      Having a capping and a cold calling range... this would be a better strategy imo, but unless you are some wizard of balance, it's very exploitable.
      tbh i must admit i don't understand OP question but if he means this then I would go for a cap or fold range and not for a cold call range simply because with a cold call range you don't have initiative leaving you in the dark on what is going on.
      if the openraiser is a fishy tag, I'd go for a mixed strategy. I do however default cold call or fold here, as Newall suggests
      Newall is an idiot then.
      An idiot who's won 100's of 1000's of dollars, written 2 books, and is currently doing a PhD in Behavioral Economics :)

      And I play the same way :D
      idiot :)
    • krysiapoker666
      krysiapoker666
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2012 Posts: 180
      how never cap vs 2 regs (Co-sb 3b)(bu-sb 3b)from BB is exploitable?
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      In theory any pure strategy in poker is exploitable but it takes a hyper-good player to do it and most players will be doing themselves a disservice by splitting their range so it's essentially a "lesser of 2 evils" spot

      I will be going into ths in a pretty major way in future content but for now I much prefer pure strategies to mixed ones but a perfect mixed strategy is going to be superior to a pure one long term...but a pure strategy is far superior to a bad mixed strategy
    • seriousnow
      seriousnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2014 Posts: 6
      Thanks for the replies guys sorry for not explaining better not my strong point! but you got it, so basically looks like i should be cold calling vs regs for balance and value raising the fish, unknown.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,449
      Flatcalling the whole range is probably the "easiest" strategy to implement. But there is no way in hell it is optimal in any sense, game theory-wise or exploitation-wise.

      Reason: The preflop value you miss out on with the monsters will be extremely hard to compensate for, either postflop with the same monsters or with "other parts" of the complete range. Even the 2bb = 1BB (times the probability that the hand holds up = 0.65 or something) missed preflop with the single hand AA, each time you have it, will be tough to regain. There was a very long thread a couple of years ago where it was concluded that 0.14sb in missed preflop value (doesn't sound much) was extremely hard to regain postflop. (As I recall, that was 4-handed, with TT, but still).

      Not going for full value preflop 4-handed is a big nono imo. It's perhaps acceptable 3-handed because it makes things a little easier (if you play the same opponents day in and day out).