[NL2-NL10] NL50 43o Freeplay, PushTurn?

    • Gerv
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Known players:

      0,25/0,5 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.60 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 4:club: , 3:heart:
      2 folds, MP1 calls $0,50, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0,50, CO folds, BU calls $0,50, Hero calls $0,25, BB checks.

      9:1 = completing with any connector is +EV

      Flop: ($2,50) 6:club: , K:diamond: , 4:diamond: (5 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $0,50, MP3 calls $0,50, BU calls $0,50, Hero calls $0,50, BB calls $0,50.

      I get 8:1 to call + some implied odds whenever I hit my 2 pair or Trips. So I found this +EV since its a minbet as well

      Turn: ($5,00) 3:club: (5 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $1,00, MP3 folds, BU calls $1,00, Hero raises to $7,25 (All-In), BB raises to $7,77 (All-In), MP1 calls $6,77, BU folds.

      So I hit my 2 pair but im facing against a double FD board, also its a bit coordinated for a straight. Nevertheless would you shove it right here?
  • 8 replies
    • jmackenzie
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
    • davidangel
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      Odds vs outs till turn... well played
      Not quite sure that I would c/r the turn as you need to protect your weak hand. I would probably push the turn.
    • jmackenzie
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      Originally posted by davidangel
      Not quite sure that I would c/r the turn as you need to protect your weak hand. I would probably push the turn.
      Good point also you cant rely on a raise off mp1 often enough as his flop min-raise looks quite weak
    • davidangel
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      This hand is a classic example of the pro poker basics found in the articles in action. A pro poker player gets involved in a hand by either calling correct odds, or raising to give incorrect odds to the opponent. In this case our hero has gimped into the pot behind a school of weak chum, as they are practically begging him with 9:1 pot odds. Our hero ponders for a moment and equates {anyconnector = +EV vs 9:1 odds} so a call is the pro move and he puts a quarter into the slot machine. WrrrrrZing and the flop brings him a dirty 5 outer with some kind of backdoor donkey draw.(yuck, our hero nearly gags, but keeps his cool, these are chum after all) Our hero calmly checks to the chum and lo and behold, one of them says, I have a pair of kings, but I've been told kicker is important in holdem, so I will minbet. Ouch, the next chum in line is finally drooling over possible paydirt, as for once his limp with Axs didn't get raised! He speedily calls and expectantly awaits his next card. Now our next chum is a special kind of chum, as he had no idea he was supposed to raise preflop with 88, but figures such a small bet must be worth drawing to another 8, no matter if it completes a flush draw, so he calls. The action goes around to the other shark in the tank, sitting in the BB with a AT :club: Now he knows the chum limp weak broadway kings, as well as suited aces and kings. He doesnt quite have a hand yet, so he takes a cheap card on the turn and calls. That leaves our brave hero, who is now faced with a juicy 8:1 pot odds bet. Again his brain is forced into action and he calculates 5 clean outs, for 8:1 hand odds.... our hero has grimly stayed with it this long... so he calls. The turn pops one of our heros clean outs! Very few hands beat our hero at this stage so now it is upto our hero to take the betting lead and give our chum incorrect odds to continue with thier hands. The pot is $5.00, our hero only has $7.50 remaining, so it is safe to assume the chum get implied odds that a bet on the turn=all-in on the river. So our hero has 2 options, check or push. If he checks he possibly thinks he could be behind still and will most likely only bet if he improves on the river, or perhaps check-raise as that signifies an extremely strong hand. I do not see our hero check-calling as the chum would have to minbet to give the correct odds to continue a 4-outer. If he pushes he gives the first chum 1.6:1 odds. If the next 3 also called what would the final chums pot odds be? 4.6:1.... see how they love to gamble!
      Post the outcome after judging... looks interesting.
    • Gerv
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      nice writing, looks like a fairytale :D

      With 5 players and I am OOP, I am not very advantaged to push it because if BB calls me, the opponent after him gets twice the odds (Thus more tempting to call), then af he calls the other Villains got even more tempting odds.

      Also if I check and another one bets, it creates dead money so I can push for more value.

      I will wait for a judge :)
    • allizdoR
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 4,568
      i have to think a bit about this hand.
      but first 43o is not a very good hand to complete. but with 9:1 you could nealry complete any two, so this would be fine. (43 is not as good as 45 because you can't hit a straight like KA324)

      on the flop the odds are great, but you only draw on buttom two pair but you could already behind against a higher two pair, so this hand is a very weak one.
      u have also to discount a bit because the board is 2s.
      Its very hard to fold on this flop with this odds, but a call isn't as fine as its look like.

      as played on the turn also push for protection. we can not fold two pair as a sssler
    • DeKuip
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,966
      I normally don't limp these kinds of hand, I would have if it was s00ted.
      But you probably know more about that, so I'm not gonna say anything about the preflop play.
      On the flop I still think I'd have folded my hand here, despite the 8:1 odds to call.

      On the turn easy c/r all-in, so nice one there.
    • ysessa
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 1,331
      i dont like your complete preflop and the call on the flop, you have to discount outs against a set or a straight so i would fold preflop and on the flop. against 66 you are toast