3 bets bluffs in micros

    • pockettones
      pockettones
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.03.2013 Posts: 114
      Hey guys I play 6max NL10 at stars. Was just wondering if it is profitable to 3bet bluff the button or squeeze the bb? Most of the time I am only 3betting premium hands lik AA KK in position and bet a merged value range oop because I think people make too many calling mistakes. Am I missing value by not incorporating 3bet bluffs and squeezes?
  • 8 replies
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      I play micros also NL2/NL5 6 max and I use a lot of 3bet bluffs from the Sb after a button raise I will also 4bet bluff if I open from the button and the sb/bb 3bet of course I will only do this things against players that have a higher vpip as when I 3bet/4bet I will normally dominate their range or have blocker cards in my hand I am never really doing it vs a tight player with a low 3bet% unless I have a monster.

      It should be part of your game for sure and you should start trying it out at the tables asap

      good luck
    • MasochisticDesire
      MasochisticDesire
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2010 Posts: 486
      Hi pockettones,

      Yes, if you are not 3bet bluffing/stealing you will be missing value. The vast majority of players at NL10 dont defend enough vs 3bets. Not only are you missing value if you are not 3bet stealing enough but you will also be making less with your made hands as anyone with even 100+ HUD hands on you will be able to make super exploitative folds vs your very tight value heavy range.

      As I stated the opinion that typical NL10 opponents fold too much to 3bets then you should also bear in mind that when you do get called you may be facing a value heavy range more often then not.

      If you wanted to calculate the required success rate of a 3bet bluff you could use the following calculation:

      amount bet / (amount+existing pot) =
      eg - you are on the button and MP opens to 3bb, you 3b to 9bb:
      9/13.5 = 67%

      Be sure to look into appropriate bet sizing (which can vary slightly if you wish dependent on your position etc) and always consider your oppoenents position and any history/stats you may have on villain before deciding to 3b and then slowly increase your range.

      How high should your 3bet% be?
      That is a very good question and dependent on the player tendancies of not just the limit but the specific players at your table and also their perception of you or your 'image' which is forever changing with every action or show down.
      I 3bet 10% at the same limit and in some spots I feel I could double this and see my non-SD winnings skyrocket and at other tables I feel I am 3betting by default without appropriate consideration and I would make more value flatting or am just blurring the lines between aggressive and spewy.

      You will need to open your 3betting range.
      I am also trying to extend some of my ranges (predominantly BB defence) and find that a useful exercise at the the tables (after appropriate study) is to pay particularly close attention to those hands that could be either a fold or a 3b (or any other defence in my case) and decide to play them always keeping yourslef at the edge of the range you feel comfortable playing. As you build upon this comfort level playing X, your range will naturally begin to increase.

      Your 3betting tendancies will also be affected by what format you play. in ZOOM you can exploit a lot as you will have a new table with new opponents next hand and it takes villains longer to realise you are starting to take the piss. On reg tables your opponents will get some indication of your style and tendancies a lot faster and you must be even more aware of your image (my default tend to be - take this piss until opponents start playing back.)

      I hope this helps and GL with the grind,
      MD
    • pockettones
      pockettones
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.03.2013 Posts: 114
      With your equation is that 67% is required for it to be break even? I find that many of the regulars and definately the fish are actually much too cally against 3bets and will fold maybe 20%-50% of the time so I definately wont bother 3bet bluffing them, but will definitely try it against grinders who are autopiloting.
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      you need to be doing it full stop
    • MasochisticDesire
      MasochisticDesire
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2010 Posts: 486
      Originally posted by pockettones
      With your equation is that 67% is required for it to be break even? I find that many of the regulars and definately the fish are actually much too cally against 3bets and will fold maybe 20%-50% of the time so I definately wont bother 3bet bluffing them, but will definitely try it against grinders who are autopiloting.
      If villain folds any more than 67% in the given example then you would be auto profiting from 3betting (given volume of course.)

      If you find that your opponents are calling 3bets with weak holding then you would minimise or eradicate your 3bet bluffing range and expand your 3bet value range.

      eg: recreational opponent opens 30% and folds only 33% when facing 3bet (meaning when you 3bet he is defending 20% of hands.)

      Playing against such an opponent it makes little sense to 3bet as a bluff obviously and so your 3betting range will not include weak hands. However, if you are only 3betting QQ, KK, AA, AKs and AKo then you are missing all the value that can be extracted with other hands that play very well against villains 20% range (10+, KQ, KJ etc) and so you should add more hands to your 3bet 'value' range.

      If you want to be more precise regarding which hand ranges play well against others then have a play around with Equilab or CardRunners EV.
      (If you haven't already downloaded either of these I believe they are both free from Pokerstrategy and CardRunners respectively.)

      MD
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Wow -- excellent thread.

      If you DON'T 3Bet bluff, you will find that you will start getting folds every time you 3Bet, and since you're only 3Betting premiums, then they get wasted -- you don't get the money you should.

      On the other hand, if you 3Bet bluff someone who won't fold you are throwing money away.

      Have a look at The 8 Player Types - How to Get Their Money

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      great thread!

      How to improve our 3b preflop percentage? I mean, I try to improve my 3b but it seems hard to find good spot to do it.

      Any info/link will be appreciated!
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      In a coaching I was watching, the coach 3Bet something like ATo and said that he 3Bet "the top of his folding range"

      That was tough for me, as at the time, I didn't have "a folding range".

      Well, yes, I folded hands, but not necessarily because of their ranges, it was more like "Who raised, from what position, and what sort of player is he" -- so my "folding range" varied from player to player.

      So I think what he meant is that our range is:
        1:  Easy 3Bet/Broke
        2:  Easy 3Bet/Call
        3:  Definite 3Bet/Fold
        4:  Call
        5:  Fold

      Each range has borderline hands, and each range depends on the player type who raised before you and the player types yet to act.

      If you 3Bet the top of your folding range, and get called, you see a flop and who knows -- you may get lucky and get to showdown cheaply which allows everyone at the table to see what crap you play and perhaps you'll get paid off more with your better hands.

      Or you may just have to fold it to a four-bet -- but that increases your folds-to-4Bet stat, which may encourage some goof to 4Bet bluff you some fine day when you hold something juicy.

      Disclaimer: I am not a coach. In fact I talk a far better game than I play. I get into deep trouble when I'm too aggressive, and when I'm too passive. The trick is to find the right balance, and I haven't found it.

      Best of luck,
      --VS