Discussion about ethics of staking

    • maritsula
      maritsula
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2011 Posts: 905
      Hey everyone.

      I feel compelled to start a discussion about a topic relating to the ethics of staking due to a recent incident.

      Yesterday morning I saw this stake request on the forums:

      Euro MTT Stake (Long term)

      The stakee said the following:

      Originally posted by amplifyd

      Anyone who would maybe be interested and wishes to discuss further please PM me.

      Thanks for looking.
      Since I was interested, I pm'd the guy and within a few hours reached to an agreement.

      This morning I received a personal attack from a PS community member on my personal blog.

      first post:
      "damn you are piece of shit with no honour" This got deleted

      Second post
      Originally posted by totte1992
      Originally posted by totte1992
      [Edited]

      //disrespectful behavior will not be tolerated, please refrain from offending others [Marta]
      im not the one that is disrespectful in this case.
      Ppl that lack any honor at all dont deserve any respect, just like maritsula.
      Third post
      Originally posted by totte1992

      You knew exactly what you was doing, and if you dont agree that you made something disrespectful you clearly have no honor whatsoever.

      I wouldnt even be thinking about doing such a thing to another stakee.

      And i dont need your advice, a person who are as greedy as you are have nothing to advice me about.

      You have nothing to explain, what you did was a move of disrespect and greed, nothing else.

      I respected you alot earlier, but after doing this you sank to the bottom and you obv lost all kind of respect i had for you.

      Totte



      I assume that the reason this member is so upset and attacked me personally is because he also expressed interest in the stake and from his perspective I "stole" his potential stake opportunity (???)

      The exact details of his interest in the stake were the following:

      Originally posted by totte1992
      Sending a pm With My Skype and we can talk tomorrow evening about this if you stil intersted by then
      Please note that the stakee did not confirm his interest and asked for his thread to remain open

      As stated before, the stakee asked anyone who is interested to pm him , which is what I did.

      As you can see from the quote of the community member in the staking thread, he merely expressed interest in the stake which was not even confirmed by the stakee.

      Saying "reserve all action and we will discuss details via skype" is way different than saying "hey am interested, will discuss via skype later on"

      If the community member said the first quote, then I do understand him and partially agree with him.

      However, I would never express a definite opinion without giving the opportunity to the other party to explain himself and would never verbally attack anyone by describing him as a piece of shit, greedy and without honour.



      My question to the community is if his personal attack, describing me as greedy and without honour is justifiable.

      In other words, should I have waited for him to discuss an agreement with the stakee and then express interest and contact the stakee?

      I am really eager to listen to the community's opinion.

      :spade:
  • 23 replies
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      So, the thing is, noone had shown any interest be4 me and after i did,he even applyed in skype a few hours (01.41) after i expressed my interest in the thread :

      " hey i am amplifyd from pstrat (already had you added), tomorrow i have football training until like 2100 my time but if you are free then we can talk "

      when i then came home that evening to discuss the deal you had already made a deal, even tho you KNEW i had expressed my interested BEFORE you.

      Ofc its not "illegal" to " run be4 someone else in line" but its not ethical right to do, and its def not respectful.

      It's like ignoring and going infront of the old lady in the line of the supermarket, noone will prolly do something about it, but i bet they all think it is a douch move.

      Anyway, i wouldnt do somehting like this to you or to any other staker on this forum, i would RESPECT i wasnt fast enough this time and try to be faster for the next oppurtunity.

      I dont say i would stake amplifyd with 100 % certenty, but i wanted to discuss the deal atleast, and if i / he wouldnt come to an agreement i wouldnt mind you going in and staking him with different terms.

      So to summurize, i dont think its a "illegal" thing to do, but i think its a move with no respect for the other stakers and a move with no honor what so ever, simply a move of greed.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      I kinda give Totte credit on this one. Just because he didn't mention he is reserving a piece, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the right to negotiate.

      Maritsula, if you did actually see him expressing interest before you did, ETHICAL thing to do would be talk to Totte and ask what % he is going to take so you know how much you can book yourself, rather than just taking 100% without hesitation. :)

      Rihard
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      I think it's up to the staked person what he wants to do and with whom he wants to make deals with. The way i see it, Maritsula didn't do anything wrong. He made proposition and the guy accepted it.

      If there's need to point fingers, it would've been polite from the staked person to listen the Totte's offer first.
    • dingostarR
      dingostarR
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2010 Posts: 78
      Beat me to it PerusJamppa, totally agree with you!
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by PerusJamppa
      I think it's up to the staked person what he wants to do and with whom he wants to make deals with. The way i see it, Maritsula didn't do anything wrong. He made proposition and the guy accepted it.

      If there's need to point fingers, it would've been polite from the staked person to listen the Totte's offer first.
      +1

      I don't see why maritsula needs to confirm with totte before requesting to deal. Willing buyer, willing seller, this is how the world works.

      This is very different from the analogy used (cutting an old lady's queue in the supermarket) and is much more similar to selling a house or something where the owner has the right to sell to anyone willing to make the deal immediately, regardless of who approached him first.
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      lol, did you really compare a staking offer to buying/selling a house :D
    • maritsula
      maritsula
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2011 Posts: 905
      Thanks for the input everyone.

      Originally posted by totte1992
      So, the thing is, noone had shown any interest be4 me and after i did,he even applyed in skype a few hours (01.41) after i expressed my interest in the thread :

      " hey i am amplifyd from pstrat (already had you added), tomorrow i have football training until like 2100 my time but if you are free then we can talk "

      When i then came home that evening to discuss the deal you had already made a deal, even tho you KNEW i had expressed my interested BEFORE you.
      When I checked the staking thread I saw that a few guys posted expressing interest (did not check/remember names) but the stakee asked for his stake to remain open. Also, in his initial post he asked anyone who was interested to pm him. Thats exactly what I did and reached to an agreement.

      Furthermore, the stakee did not inform me that he was already discussing a deal with someone else etc. I would be more than happy to provide skype chat logs.

      And this might suprise you but not I did even know that you specifically expressed interest before me. I was quite shocked when I found in my blog a post by you saying "you are a piece of shit with no honor". Actually, it took me 10-15 minutes to figure out what was going on.

      As I said before, you could raise a point about my behaviour being unethical if you said "reserve all action, will discuss details on skype" since this is binding.

      However, since you stated that you might be interested and willing to discuss it at later point, I dont see why this should stop anyone from contacting the stakee!

      I wont even comment on yout eagerness to jump to conclusions and on your abusive language and behavior.

      The only reason I made this thread is because your extremist behaviour made me doubt my actions and wanted to hear if more people shared your views.
    • ZeDawning
      ZeDawning
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.02.2011 Posts: 204
      Originally posted by PerusJamppa
      I think it's up to the staked person what he wants to do and with whom he wants to make deals with. The way i see it, Maritsula didn't do anything wrong. He made proposition and the guy accepted it.

      If there's need to point fingers, it would've been polite from the staked person to listen the Totte's offer first.
      ^ This

      Also, the stakee did say to keep the thread open, so if I was a potential staker I would have assumed nothing was finalized.
      Probably would have added him on skype and gone "have you finalized stake with anyone? No? Ok so can we discuss?"

      Nothing unethical tbh.

      Plus if I'm looking at stakee's perspective, even though someone has expressed interest first, I would also consider others who has expressed interest and maybe go with the guy who asked third, simply because I feel like I'm more comfortable with him.

      Don't see anything wrong here
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      Originally posted by maritsula
      Thanks for the input everyone.

      Originally posted by totte1992
      So, the thing is, noone had shown any interest be4 me and after i did,he even applyed in skype a few hours (01.41) after i expressed my interest in the thread :

      " hey i am amplifyd from pstrat (already had you added), tomorrow i have football training until like 2100 my time but if you are free then we can talk "

      When i then came home that evening to discuss the deal you had already made a deal, even tho you KNEW i had expressed my interested BEFORE you.
      When I checked the staking thread I saw that a few guys posted expressing interest (did not check/remember names) but the stakee asked for his stake to remain open. Also, in his initial post he asked anyone who was interested to pm him. Thats exactly what I did and reached to an agreement.

      Furthermore, the stakee did not inform me that he was already discussing a deal with someone else etc. I would be more than happy to provide skype chat logs.

      And this might suprise you but not I did even know that you specifically expressed interest before me. I was quite shocked when I found in my blog a post by you saying "you are a piece of shit with no honor". Actually, it took me 10-15 minutes to figure out what was going on.

      As I said before, you could raise a point about my behaviour being unethical if you said "reserve all action, will discuss details on skype" since this is binding.

      However, since you stated that you might be interested and willing to discuss it at later point, I dont see why this should stop anyone from contacting the stakee!

      I wont even comment on yout eagerness to jump to conclusions and on your abusive language and behavior.

      The only reason I made this thread is because your extremist behaviour made me doubt my actions and wanted to hear if more people shared your views.
      It was ONLY me who was interested in the first place ( if you remove the guy asking for the bankroll needed )

      He said the thread should be open for a different reason you assuming:

      There was ppl saying he might wouldnt find a staker with the condition he stated and they suggested he might should open up pieces instead. Amplifyd then said that " this MIGHT be the option" A mod (Hollymichelle) then asked if he should close the thread.

      Im 99 % sure thatAplifyd then said no mostly becouse inbetween this i explained my intetest in the staking. Therefore there was no reason to close the thread at that point. ( i havnt had the time to talk to him yet, which is why he didnt want it closed)

      And there was ppl agreeing and disagreeing with me about your actions...
    • ipeaceonu
      ipeaceonu
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2007 Posts: 232
      The stakee has a right to choose whoever he wants to have a stake with, nobody has the right to stake him just because they asked first. This reminds me of a spoilt child not getting what they want.
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      Originally posted by ipeaceonu
      The stakee has a right to choose whoever he wants to have a stake with, nobody has the right to stake him just because they asked first. This reminds me of a spoilt child not getting what they want.
      totally agree but that's not the point, whatsoever
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Originally posted by totte1992
      lol, did you really compare a staking offer to buying/selling a house :D
      Its a much more apt analogy imo.

      Re the discussion. I think its up to the person selling tbh, unless someone specifically reserves action I don't see a problem with what happened.
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      Originally posted by holmeboy
      Originally posted by totte1992
      lol, did you really compare a staking offer to buying/selling a house :D
      Its a much more apt analogy imo.

      Re the discussion. I think its up to the person selling tbh, unless someone specifically reserves action I don't see a problem with what happened.
      Exactly.

      It's not the staker's responsibility to make sure that all previous offers by other stakers have been dealt with. Maritsula did absolutely nothing wrong or unethical.
    • dannywratten
      dannywratten
      Gold
      Joined: 11.05.2010 Posts: 1,462
      Originally posted by totte1992
      lol, did you really compare a staking offer to buying/selling a house :D
      Did you really compare yourself to an old lady?

      :coolface:
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      PerusJamppa , MBML and others got it spot on IMO, it is up to the stakee to decides who he wants to deal with...

      There is no lack of ethics in this case. At the end of day it is business that's all not courtesy. You did not get the deal. tough shit, move on!
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      Originally posted by thazar

      There is no lack of ethics in this case. At the end of day it is business that's all not courtesy. You did not get the deal. tough shit, move on!
      i dont really care if i got the deal or not, and ofc its the stakees chooice who he want as a backer, i totally agree, but again thats not why im dissapointed . The thing i think is disrespectful is HOW maritsula got the deal, thats all.
    • maritsula
      maritsula
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2011 Posts: 905
      Originally posted by totte1992
      Originally posted by thazar

      There is no lack of ethics in this case. At the end of day it is business that's all not courtesy. You did not get the deal. tough shit, move on!
      i dont really care if i got the deal or not, and ofc its the stakees chooice who he want as a backer, i totally agree, but again thats not why im dissapointed . The thing i think is disrespectful is HOW maritsula got the deal, thats all.
      Totte, I really cant follow you thought process. What do you mean how I got the deal?

      Stakee applied for a stake, even though you expressed potential interest, stakee kept his application open and was asking for anyone interested to pm his so they can discuss in private. I did just that and reached to an agreement. Its as simple as that.

      Lastly, I would like to thank all the community members for taking the time to express their opinion.
    • totte1992
      totte1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2010 Posts: 444
      If you are as narrow minded as you sounds i dont have the energy to explain. I stil think your action was disrespectful whatever you or/and any other member say...

      i wouldnt have done something like this to you but now when we made clear we dont have any honorcode on this forum, i might start doing the same thing to you in the future.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      My 2c regarding this: I think there was a miscommunication between both players. Imo argue is pointless here, its like deciding which phone fits you better: samsung or apple. Should focus to find a (friendly) solution. While I agree that maritsula is "aggressive" towards staking deals, he should be also someone that wants to settle this in a friendly manner if there are any issues.

      If you can't come to a friendly solution, there is one thing left.....
      HU4ROLLZ :f_cool: :f_cool: :f_cool:
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