OOP on a drawy board

    • wealthybrainer
      wealthybrainer
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 277
      Preflop: we are SB, SB opened and BB called. BB is a good NL100 reg
      Flop: T :diamond: 9 :diamond: 7 :diamond:

      What to do with straights? (J8o,86o)

      Firstly, I assume we should bet them. What should we do if we're raised?
      I would 3bet and hope to get call and maybe check the turn? If villian goes all in on the flop I would fold because straights are dominated by flushes.
      How would you play them?
      would bet/call be better?
  • 7 replies
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      depends how deep we are.

      If you made it 3x the bb preflop i would get in up to around 130bb vs an unknown on the flop.
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 337
      A lot of players will bet this board close to 100% when checked to, meaning you should just check your whole range and prob c/r with your straights. Also wtf are you doing opening 86o vs a good reg in the BB?
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Silver
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Originally posted by oblioo
      A lot of players will bet this board close to 100% when checked to, meaning you should just check your whole range and prob c/r with your straights. Also wtf are you doing opening 86o vs a good reg in the BB?
      Hi oblioo,
      Open fold seems weak here, so do you suggest limping in with 56o, 67o, 86o, 8Jo, 96o... vs good regs?
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Originally posted by oblioo
      A lot of players will bet this board close to 100% when checked to, meaning you should just check your whole range and prob c/r with your straights. Also wtf are you doing opening 86o vs a good reg in the BB?
      Hi oblioo,
      Open fold seems weak here, so do you suggest limping in with 56o, 67o, 86o, 8Jo, 96o... vs good regs?
      Why does open fold seem weak? Do you think you're winning money by opening those hands vs good regs?
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Silver
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Originally posted by oblioo
      Originally posted by FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Originally posted by oblioo
      A lot of players will bet this board close to 100% when checked to, meaning you should just check your whole range and prob c/r with your straights. Also wtf are you doing opening 86o vs a good reg in the BB?
      Hi oblioo,
      Open fold seems weak here, so do you suggest limping in with 56o, 67o, 86o, 8Jo, 96o... vs good regs?
      Why does open fold seem weak? Do you think you're winning money by opening those hands vs good regs?
      Depends on the meaning of "good regs", at zoom25 where regs are often very tight.. I would dare to say yes :/, but in general, I agree that it's not profitable to open these hands oop vs good- positionally aware players. However, I think that folding 100% of the time in this situation is not optimal too, so what do you think the best approach would be? I mean ok, if you think that folding 100% of the time is way to play this, I respect your opinion, but wouldn't some mixed approach be better? (Sometimes fold, sometimes limp, maybe sometimes (rare) even rfi?
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 337
      Sure, at 25nl if regs are too tight, and/or not 3betting, and/or if they're weak postflop, then you can probably make 86o a profitable open. But OP said "good reg at 100nl", and vs. anyone who is actually decent, I don't think you should ever open 86o SB vs BB; if you do that your range will be way too wide and weak and your opponent will be able to easily exploit that, so I don't think it's ever +EV vs. someone good.

      That said, I agree it seems reasonable that an optimal strategy with hands like 86o SB vs BB is likely a mixed strategy of sometimes folding and sometimes limping (though I wouldn't know how to begin to try to prove that). But since no one plays optimally and limping is probably close to 0EV (assuming you play perfectly postflop), you can't really go wrong with folding by default.
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Silver
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Originally posted by oblioo
      Sure, at 25nl if regs are too tight, and/or not 3betting, and/or if they're weak postflop, then you can probably make 86o a profitable open. But OP said "good reg at 100nl", and vs. anyone who is actually decent, I don't think you should ever open 86o SB vs BB; if you do that your range will be way too wide and weak and your opponent will be able to easily exploit that, so I don't think it's ever +EV vs. someone good.

      That said, I agree it seems reasonable that an optimal strategy with hands like 86o SB vs BB is likely a mixed strategy of sometimes folding and sometimes limping (though I wouldn't know how to begin to try to prove that). But since no one plays optimally and limping is probably close to 0EV (assuming you play perfectly postflop), you can't really go wrong with folding by default.
      Missed that part NL100 :facepalm:

      Thanks for detailed reply,
      Very helpful.