NL1k hu 4b pot

    • muumionu
      muumionu
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2012 Posts: 816
      Villain is a good nl2k+ reg. Information we've got so far is that in normal pots he cbets 68% and barrels 69%. Should we have a c/r range otf? Should we shove pair of J's ott?


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $5/$10 No-Limit Hold'em (2 handed)

      Known players:
      BB (Hero):
      $1329.78
      SB:
      $1366.97


      Preflop: Hero is BB with K, Q.
      SB raises to $24.00, Hero raises to $80.00, SB raises to $185.00, Hero calls $100.00.

      Flop: ($360) 6, J, 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets $160.00, Hero calls $160.00.

      Turn: ($680) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets $249.50, Hero raises to $989.78
  • 5 replies
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      my c/r range would be any pp's over 6's (guess you wouldnt get in 77,88 pre) jx up to jt.

      And bluff range of oesd's 5x with a high spade shoving any spade turn.

      I agree calling flop shoving turn with your good strong draws is good with the intention of shoving pretty much any turn. if you care about balance shove the aj kj but i dont think this situation occurs too often.
    • lnternet
      lnternet
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      For range construction postflop we need to know what range you get to the flop with. This is crucial. jmack mentions J2-JT for flop raises, which makes perfect sense, but maybe you never 3bet/call4bet with any of those.

      I think the only hands you want to raise on the flop are weak-but-strong-enough-to-stack pairs and good draws, just like 5x to weak Jx. Most good draws play fine by calling as well though.

      Sizing for a flop raise is a bit awkward, you just want to shove, but it's pretty big bet to shove, making it not so attractive for 6x Jx and even FDs.

      So I would think you don't want to XR the flop much at all.


      Turn with your hand I really don't see why you want to shove. It's very unlikely that he is 2barreling Ahi to bet/fold. Like all A-low have a gutter/oesd/pair. A9 AT don't usually 4bet, and AQ+ won't 2barrel/fold as a plan. Also, of course, no pair bet/folds turn ever. So you either have the best hand or he folds. You might want to shove to deny equity from his bluffs, but you actually cover his bluffs pretty well by having the best two highcards (he might be bluffing with Q2) and the FD of course (covers 3s 7s etc).

      So turn is a very clear call>raise.
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      Originally posted by lnternet
      Turn with your hand I really don't see why you want to shove. It's very unlikely that he is 2barreling Ahi to bet/fold. Like all A-low have a gutter/oesd/pair. A9 AT don't usually 4bet, and AQ+ won't 2barrel/fold as a plan. Also, of course, no pair bet/folds turn ever. So you either have the best hand or he folds. You might want to shove to deny equity from his bluffs, but you actually cover his bluffs pretty well by having the best two highcards (he might be bluffing with Q2) and the FD of course (covers 3s 7s etc).

      So turn is a very clear call>raise.
      I agree with what you've said If the player has shown he does this. Beforehand though I would have to presume A-low that barrels would be mainly oesd's or gutshots and shoving makes it hard to call. Yes he only needs 28% equity, but its still a hard call for him to make. If he does call with a low A and pair or a low oesd or gutshot i would make sure when similar situations arise to include all my stronger holdings sets straights included into my turn shoving range making his call vs our range neutral maybe even slightly -ev.

      But given the actual hand in question, I think a call is very reasonable given the points you brought up.
    • Itsnevereasy
      Itsnevereasy
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2010 Posts: 381
      I would have played it exactly the same way as you did, but what lnternet said makes a lot of sense!

      However, I still think its not 100% sure that call>raise Turn. I am not convinced that he doesn't fold any pair, If he has pair of 4s or 5s he might bet on the turn to protect/make a showdown more likely.

      And I think its reasonable to assume that he would barrel A7,A8,A3 and losing vs those hands would be a nightmare if the river goes check,check. So unless we figure out a way to fold out these hands on the river (donk shove?!), I prefer check raising the turn.

      Balance with KJ,AJ? I don't know i guess it depends a lot on how you think about balance. People are very spewy in 4bet pots vs me atleast, so I think calling with AJ/KJ is higher EV in a vacuum. Whether you want to sacrifice that EV for balance would depend on the long term EV of being balanced in this spot. In short, If you are not planning to play him everyday for the rest of 2014 EV > balance.
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Silver
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      I think that we want to play it this way when IP in 3b pot. Here his range seems much stronger, so I don't see him folding ott, which makes our jam EV- imo, I would just call and fold otr if not improved.