When to call it quits and change poker sites.

    • Burt2004
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 4
      So being a U.S. player I can't get the bonus, but I've been using the short stack strategy I learned here.

      Well it's been going great up until now. I've turned 10 into 50 and 50 into 175. I went to cake poker to start working on their first deposit bonus and now I've run into a problem.

      I've had bad streaks before, but none has lasted as long as this one. I've lost over 70 in the last week playing 2 hours a day. I have yet to post a profit for a day's session.

      I swear cakepoker is rigged. So many times do I find 3 way all-in pots with aa, kk, ak. It's gotten to the point that when I go all-in I hope no one calls me because that's the only way I can leave the table with a profit. Even if I have someone beat preflop they end up trippin' there 4's or 2 pairing their q/10.

      When do I call it more than a drought and pack up and leave??? I was doing much better on other sites. It's just a pain in the ass for U.S. players to cashout.
  • 5 replies
    • TheBu11d0g
      Joined: 25.07.2008 Posts: 2,019
      To be honest with you i cant see the whole 70 loss being down to bad beats. It will probably also include some mistakes that were made by you either pre- or postflop.

      I would suggest rereading and rereading the articles as much as possible to make sure you completely understand the strategy as beginners will and do make mistakes with the SSS. I would also suggest that you go back over your hands where you won the most as well as the ones where you lost the most and make sure that you played those hands 100% correctly.

      I would also watch the videos that are available to you as well.


    • plaukas
      Joined: 10.04.2007 Posts: 205
      Post hands in the 'Sample Hands Short Stack Strategy' forum.
    • Velak
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 542
      g'day Burt!

      I'm also a U.S. Citizen, although I'm currently living out of the country. I feel your pain. I also play SSS.

      I don't know you, or how well you're playing, how closely you follow the strats, where your mistakes are, etc, so I can't offer much in the way of guidance there. I would say if you played well enough to get your roll from 10 to 175.. and you did it while following a good Bankroll Management Plan, then you probably don't have too much to worry about.

      Did you move up limits recently? If so and you've done badly, did you move back down? Do you use a tool to analyze, and replay your hands when you're done? (Like pokertracker, or holdem manager)?

      What I like to do.. I play my session, and sometime later (often after dinner) I'll come back and sit down with my partner, and we'll look at the hands I played during the day. It doesn't take as long as it might sound. Since you're playing SSS you're only playing maybe 6% of all the hands you're dealt. So go back, look at every hand where you lost money, and where you won money. Replay them, step by step through each street, and see if you always made the right decisions on each street.

      If you did... then it's just bad beats, variance.. nothing to worry about.

      If you didn't.. take notes on what your mistake was, each time. You may find you're making the same mistakes over and over. Are you one of those who can't lay down KK when an ace hits the flop an opponent betting into you? Maybe you hit air with AK on the flop, and you're overvaluing your trash hand? Maybe you're trying to steal too much and you're not getting away with it... or.. whatever.. make notes, and learn from them

      sorry, I had something else I had wanted to mention and I was interrupted while typing this, and now I can't remember. If I do, I'll come back later and edit the message.

      But the most important thing, I think, is to be HONEST with yourself. You're hurting no one else, but yourself, if you're playing badly, but piling the fault onto "bad beats".

      By reviewing my sessions with my partner, it helps keep me "honest". If I make a stupid mistake, I have witnesses. :D So, that helps me as well to make the right decisions, knowing that every hand will be reviewed by a committee of people who have no fear telling me how bad I sucked, if indeed I do. :D It's my own personal Tribal Council.

      You don't have to have your own tribunal or anything, but it's important to be honest with yourself. Post hands in the forums for review, if you have any questions on them. don't give up.. just be honest with yourself.

      By the way I play on PokerStars. I play SSS. I still manage to make a profit (although slower than I would on a rakeback site), So it is possible.
    • Burt2004
      Joined: 21.08.2008 Posts: 4
      Yeah I used pokertracer on Pokerstars where I last played and I loved it. It doesn't support cake so I'm kind of lost without it, but since SSS is so formulaic it shouldn't matter what my opponents are doing.

      I wouldn't say I'm making mistakes. I've reread the articles and printed out the chart and make sure I follow it even when it hurts. I was playing .10/.20 but because my bankroll dipped below 120 I play a couple tables of .05/.1 and a few tables of .02/.04 (cake only has 2 tables of .5/.1 full ring for some reason)

      Lemme run something by you guys though, as this is where I lose a lot of my money. Say I have AK early position and I raise 4x bb like SSS states. I get one caller. On a .05/.1 game pot is now .95 and I have 1.30 left.

      Flop hits and I get air. I'm first to act and doesn't the SSS tell you to bluff with only one player? So in this case I would be forced to go all in even though more often than not my opponent gets giddy and calls with jj's or q's or something of the like.

      That's where I lose my money, when I pretty much know I'm beat but the SSS tells me to bluff because I have so much invested.

      EDIT: Since I see a lot of the same faces over and over I'm starting to wonder if people have pegged me for my strategy. If that's the case then I figure I will continue to lose since my opponents have so much information on my hand. That is why I'm considering on moving.
    • Velak
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 542
      I wouldn't worry about people having you pegged. It doesn't much matter. I play against the same people for hours every day that I've been playing against for the past 7 months. They don't seem to pay that much attention.

      You'd think by now they'd learn that if I'm betting I have a decent hand (top 6% hand hehe).. but.. I still get geniuses raising preflop with 54o and then calling my allin preflop push when I have AA.

      It just makes me want to help them. I sometimes shake my head and say "dont' you ever learn?" but.. they can't hear me.

      Regarding the AK... the Strat says to bet 2/3 the pot as a c-bet (or push if it would take more than half of your remaining stack). You do this only when you're against one player, not two (or more). And only if they didn't get to act first, and they made a bet. From the sound of your reply, it seems you're already clear on this, but I'm just mentioning it for anyone else who may read who isn't.

      Ok.. so, if you're the first to act, and against one other player, then yes, you should C-Bet. Remember, that most of the time, you're not going to hit the flop. But, either are they. So most of the time the C-bet will take it.

      Now.. where I make an adjustment.. is here...

      If you're using a program like PokerTracker (on a site that supports it, I realize that cake doesn't) AND you are paying attention to their "folds to Cbet" stat.. AND you have a statistically relevant number of hands on them, AND that stat shows them to be a calling station (they just never fold to a C-Bet) then, I would just give up the hand at that point. Check it down, fold to a bet, whatever.. but don't invest any more money.

      But that's a lot of "IFs" ... so without solid reads on your specific opponent, I would recommend following the strategy, and firing off a CBet if you raised preflop, and if you only have one opponent against you who has not bet yet.

      Remember that you're only playing 6% of the hands. For anyone even attempting to pay any kind of attention, or anyone using a pokertracker themselves, you will be seen as very tight. They should fear every bet you make, because it should appear that you're not just spewing chips.. so if you're betting, you likely have a hand.

      Now, it doesn't always work that way, but it should work that way ENOUGH of the time for you to make a profit. You're not going to win every hand, and they won't fold to every Cbet. But they'll fold to enough of them that it's profitable to fire off a Cbet in that situation.

      Edit: For the record, I hate AK when I miss the flop, too. Also, I try to watch my tables (I keep table average VPIP among other stats on my tables.. if the tables tightens up too much, I'll leave it and find a table with more spewtards). I don't know how helpful that might be, but .. if you're playing on a table full of people as tight as you are.. it's harder to win than if you're playing with people willing to go allin with any two cards. :D