how did you overcome spewing ?

    • jackwilder077
      jackwilder077
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2013 Posts: 1,124
      hey guys !!

      even if I am winning on these small stakes (nl20) on good rate ! I feel so shitty about my self and so angry ! because i keep doing every session big bluff and when I loose them I get so frustrated !
      I feel like I am spewing money ...I keep saying to my self don't make these big bluff without deep thinking ...but all of the sudden in the middle or the end of the session (not long 600h) I forget that ..and voila I lost a buy in !

      please guys share with me something from your experience ...any body did something like that before ???
      if yes ,what did you do to stop this ??

      is it a good thing to ban my self from making big bluffs at these limits ?? even if I saw a good opportunity !!


      I keep seeing good opportunities because I only play 4-5 tables with deep thinking but I keep feel so shitty about my self when I do these big bluffs and loose a buy in !!


      these are some examples ...


      888 Poker - $0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 77.3 BB (VPIP: 21.31, PFR: 5.74, 3Bet Preflop: 2.04, Hands: 125)
      SB: 191.3 BB (VPIP: 21.06, PFR: 16.70, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 1,125)
      Hero (BB): 193 BB
      UTG: 104.35 BB (VPIP: 23.18, PFR: 19.87, 3Bet Preflop: 1.96, Hands: 157)
      MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.38, PFR: 12.88, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 406)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 26.37, PFR: 19.78, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 93)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: J:club:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

      Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 3:club: Q:diamond: 6:club:
      SB bets 4.5 BB, Hero calls 4.5 BB

      Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 9:spade:
      SB bets 11.25 BB, Hero raises to 30.5 BB, SB calls 19.25 BB

      River: (76 BB, 2 players) A:diamond:
      SB checks, Hero bets 57 BB, SB calls 57 BB

      Hero shows K:club: J:club: (High Card, Ace) (Pre 51%, Flop 26%, Turn 23%)
      SB shows 3:diamond: 3:spade: (Three of a Kind, Threes) (Pre 49%, Flop 74%, Turn 77%)
      SB wins 180.5 BB


      888 Poker - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: 40 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 9.27, 3Bet Preflop: 3.77, Hands: 153)
      BTN: 148.27 BB (VPIP: 22.45, PFR: 18.37, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 104)
      Hero (SB): 100 BB
      BB: 138.33 BB (VPIP: 22.01, PFR: 19.03, 3Bet Preflop: 12.09, Hands: 275)
      UTG: 125 BB (VPIP: 21.22, PFR: 15.12, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 418)
      MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:spade: A:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold

      Flop: (8 BB, 2 players) 2:spade: T:spade: 2:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

      Turn: (20 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 15 BB, Hero raises to 40 BB, BTN raises to 107.8 BB, Hero calls 50.5 BB

      River: (201 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:

      BTN shows Q:diamond: Q:spade: (Two Pair, Queens and Twos) (Pre 68%, Flop 60%, Turn 75%)
      Hero shows J:spade: A:spade: (One Pair, Twos) (Pre 32%, Flop 40%, Turn 25%)
      BTN wins 190.97 BB


      888 Poker - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (BB): 102.33 BB
      UTG: 131.67 BB (VPIP: 26.05, PFR: 18.72, 3Bet Preflop: 7.21, Hands: 987)
      CO: 99.7 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
      BTN: 113 BB (VPIP: 24.32, PFR: 18.92, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 37)
      SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.84, PFR: 16.51, 3Bet Preflop: 5.60, Hands: 770)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:club: A:heart:

      fold, CO calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 4 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 7.5 BB

      Flop: (24.5 BB, 2 players) T:diamond: T:spade: 8:spade:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 13.23 BB, Hero raises to 90.83 BB, BTN calls 77.6 BB

      Turn: (206.17 BB, 2 players) 4:spade:

      River: (206.17 BB, 2 players) 9:spade:

      Hero shows J:club: A:heart: (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 68%, Flop 45%, Turn 0%)
      BTN shows Q:spade: J:spade: (Straight Flush, Queen High) (Pre 32%, Flop 55%, Turn 100%)
      BTN wins 195.87 BB


      888 Poker - $0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      MP: 59 BB (VPIP: 20.41, PFR: 16.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
      CO: 185.7 BB (VPIP: 22.38, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 6.99, Hands: 1,377)
      Hero (BTN): 109.4 BB
      SB: 97.3 BB (VPIP: 22.02, PFR: 14.31, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 1,241)
      BB: 115.5 BB (VPIP: 30.58, PFR: 12.23, 3Bet Preflop: 1.49, Hands: 672)
      UTG: 105.65 BB (VPIP: 35.77, PFR: 25.20, 3Bet Preflop: 13.21, Hands: 129)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:heart: 7:heart:

      fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

      Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) 3:heart: K:heart: 8:diamond:
      BB checks, CO bets 7.1 BB, Hero calls 7.1 BB, fold

      Turn: (23.7 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:
      CO bets 17.75 BB, Hero raises to 40.5 BB, CO raises to 175.6 BB, Hero calls 58.8 BB

      River: (222.3 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:

      CO shows 8:spade: 8:club: (Three of a Kind, Eights) (Pre 82%, Flop 72%, Turn 82%)
      Hero shows 8:heart: 7:heart: (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 18%, Flop 28%, Turn 18%)
      CO wins 211.2 BB


      please guys just tell me something..few words maybe i ll get better ..I feel so lonely in this monster poker world !
  • 3 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Originally posted by jackwilder077
      hey guys !!

      even if I am winning on these small stakes (nl20) on good rate ! I feel so shitty about my self and so angry ! because i keep doing every session big bluff and when I loose them I get so frustrated !
      I feel like I am spewing money ...I keep saying to my self don't make these big bluff without deep thinking ...but all of the sudden in the middle or the end of the session (not long 600h) I forget that ..and voila I lost a buy in !
      The 1960's song, "Turn, Turn, Turn" opens with:


      To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
      There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
      And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

      A time to call, a time to raise
      A time to fold, a time to bluff
      A time to check, a time to quit entirely
      A time to laugh, a time to weep
      Or that is how I remember it anyway. :coolface:

      The problem is not that you run a big bluff every so often, it is *when* you run them, and against whom you run them.

      You say you "feel shitty about myself and so angry" when you lose, but how do you feel when you win?

      The mental game part of this is just as important as the poker part.

      You should feel NOTHING regardless of whether you win or lose.
      <I'm not sure if that is even possible, but that's the goal>

      So my recommendations:
        Get hold of a copy of "The Mental Game of Poker" by Jared Tendler
        Go through it like it was a manual -- don't just read it, DO it.
        Watch pleno1's coaching on Wednesdays, and watch all saved coachings on justin.tv for examples of how, when and against whom to pull these off.
        Read The 8 Player Types - How to Get Their Money

      I do pretty much exactly what you do -- I try for one of these types of "take it away from them" sort of bluffs every couple of hundred hands. I used to do more, but I prefer smaller bluffs on earlier streets, because you can get away with more, and you can back out if you get steamrolled.

      Some days are disastrous: a few days ago, I played 1000 hands, and was down 5 BI after 500. 2 bluffs gone sour and 3 good hands cracked. Poker is like that.

      Hang in there.
      Study, practice, relax.
      You'll get there

      Best of luck
      --VS
    • Ganimator
      Ganimator
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2013 Posts: 189
      Don't mean to sound harsh, these our my opinions on hands.

      Hand 1) Don't see the point in raising turn , I believe your hand plays better into your calling range. Flush draw + gutshot + over(maybe2) as well as having some showdown value vs his draws. Raising just doesn't make too much this hand sense, you rep Q9, 33,66,99. River is not a good bluff card for you , Ax flush draws get there and literally no draws get there so once again your repping a really narrow value range with a LOT of busted draws. Since you guys are really deep I don't mind overbet shoving river, cause looks extremely strong.

      Hand 2)

      Once again goes into a X/C range, I would avoid bluffing double suited boards frequently. Since your value range is too thin compared to your bluff range. If your raising these boards all the time , regs will pick up on it pretty quick.

      If you do raise these boards don't do it with Axs, do it with 87s or lower flush.

      1)Since with two overs + flush draw your hand actually has showdown value vs his draws.
      2) Your blocking his potential Axs hands which are the most likely hand to call your turn raise and fold river on blanks. Making your potential river bluff really bad since he will have more value hands (anti-blocker concept)

      Hand 3)

      Hopefully this is just tilt. Call pre vs 4x , X/F flop.

      Hand 4)

      I like the play in this hand, your hand is two weak too X/C again. Your blocking a set. Although 3 way, people won't usually be double barreling light so I don't mind a X/F on the turn because even if you hit river , it will be hard to extract value from worse. Raising is ok. Only problem is you have so many draws in your range ,I think you can fold to the 3 bet. You will pretty much always being seeing KJ and sets or combodraws which crush you.

      I think you mostly have a case of trying to run people over with aggression(which I also had) which might work at Nl20-NL50 but as you move up won't. Analyse your hands and try to pick better hands to bluff with , hands that have blockers and no showdown value or that play poorly on most turns or river.

      Also no need for big bluffs at Nl20 regs are really bad and call too light. I recommend going for frequent small bluffs and winning as many small pots as possible.

      Cheers
    • jackwilder077
      jackwilder077
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2013 Posts: 1,124
      Guys ..Thank you very much ,that was really helpful :)

      and special thanks to Ganimator for analyzing my hands ,it is really that I am far away from this level of thinking ...i will follow your advice , I ll try to stop these big bluffs because it is really just a spew when I don't know the WHY !

      I will focus on taking just small pots because as you said no need to these big bluffs..

      Again thank you :f_love: