7 charts

    • torpeharcsa
      torpeharcsa
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 16
      i play fix limit on bronz level

      the 7 charts are getting clear now ,but still have few questions:

      1. 3-bet chart
      a: big blind + one raiser only no other callers, than me to act next?
      b: either raise or fold, no calling?


      2. what to do if i played my hand according to 7 charts and
      a: one raise after me?
      b: more than one raise after me?

      still follow the shc (basic level) and with one raise you call ,with very strong hand you raise?more than one raise you call only strong hand ,raise very strong?
  • 8 replies
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      You got it right. :)

      3-bet chart only raising/folding, with only 1 raiser and no callers.

      With QQ+, AK you always raise, no matter what. With other hands you play according to basic SHC (call strong, raise very strong).
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi torpeharcsa and welcome to our FL section. :)

      1.
      a: I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. You are in the BB and one opponent raised you. There are no other opponents in the hand anmore.
      If so then just use the BB Defence chart and not the 3-bet chart.
      b: Here you are not in the BB and there was a raise ahead of you. A coldcall is in nearly every situation wrong so yes 3-bet or fold.

      2.
      a: Against one raise you either cap (if your hand is trong enough to do so) or call. if it's too weak. You never fold. As you don't limp (= calling preflop) the only decision is cap or call as you raised and the other 3-bet.
      b: I have to admit I'm not sure how the bronze articles handle this. I think you call the hands you would cap against one raise and fold everything else. Maybe a user who is more used to the bronze articles can correct me if I'm wrong.

      Your last situation doesnt happen. As the action is following: You raise, 1st 3-bets, 2nd caps and you can just call or fold as the action is capped on most sites.

      Keep on posting. :)
    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      Why is coldcall such big mistake? Imagine you hold 99 on the button and there is raise before you from UTG ant then 3bet from CO. Well you should now fold acording to chart(not mentioned there). But when you notice opponents are very loose you could make position call. Both of them should hold overcards which are blockers for each other and you are in position. You think in this situation is worth cap or fold?
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      the problem with coldcallign 99 is that you'll often face tough decisions after the flop

      even if it's a flop like 258, you cannot be sure that your pair is good, you could still be behind to an higher overpair (a very realistic scenario in a 3bet pot), and then you have only 2 outs to improve
      note that even if they only hold overcards (AK-AQ), they still have 6 outs to beat you till the river

      if it's a highcard flop like KJ5, again it's gonna be tough to continue against two opponents who have shown strength preflop, with only a pair of 9s


      of course when you flop a set, then you can be pretty confident to be ahead :) but that just doesn't happen often enough to make a preflop coldcall profitable against a 3bet


      but if you really want to play the hand, then i'd rather cap it preflop so you'll have the initiative, and can possibly fold out the UTG raiser
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Well these charts calculate with standard opponents which aren't very aggressive nor very loose so it would be a mistake to make a coldcall as a standard move.
      In some situations a coldcall is fine. (Often a cap or fold is still better. Either you have enough equity for a 3-bet or you haven't got enough while the odds are bad as wel so a fold is better.)

      Loose opponents often have tight raising ranges.

      oard:
      Dead:

      Equity Gewonnen UnentschiedenVerloren Hand
      Spieler 1: 37.853 % 35.579 % 4.659 % 59.762 % 99+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+
      Spieler 2: 35.194 % 33.047 % 4.405 % 62.548 % 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+
      Spieler 3: 26.954 % 25.579 % 2.861 % 71.560 % 99

      Here our equity isn't high enough to cap. The pot is 6,5 SB big we have to call 3 SB. With a pocketpair we need 7,5:1 for a profitable call against normal opponents. This can be reduced against very showdownbound opponents or against very aggressive ones. Well 2,25:1 is far away from 7,5:1 so a call would be very bad in my opinion.

      Board:
      Dead:

      Equity Gewonnen UnentschiedenVerloren Hand
      Spieler 1: 34.045 % 32.360 % 3.480 % 64.160 % 66+, A9s+, KJs+, ATo+
      Spieler 2: 32.406 % 30.835 % 3.251 % 65.914 % 66+, A7s+, KTs+, ATo+, KQo
      Spieler 3: 33.549 % 32.410 % 2.386 % 65.203 % 99


      Against looser opponents we can cap so a coldcall s against no option.

      So a coldcall might be possible but the situation has to be very good so cap or fold is the better standard for beginners and coldcalling when you know when it's good to do so should be better. :)
    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      The problem with capping 99 when button is a good way but when SB its not so easy. When you cap as button you can drive a game on avery street. As SB you have to bet flop, bet turn and then possibly bet the river. If you only coldcall you can fight for pot only in a good situation for you. So blinds are good place for defensive game.

      Generally I wonder when in poker to calm down initiative. Because have problems with players calling me down. But if I check the river i have to start thinking if they should really called it with ace high or pair of threes. I start to think I should bet it but see so often ace high players calling me down. And when I watch high limits its the same. Players calling with ace high, like it would be good game to calldown every pair to the river to be more imune against blufs.

      Typical situation is when i get AK and not allways at the buton but in MP and gets two or three limpers, flop comes 5-7-10 and i am starting betting flop, turn and they call me down. Even with straight they will 70% of time call me down.

      And when I calm down initiative, someone 70% of time bet against me and that man would not probably raised if I bet. Sometimes it would be nice to check instead of betting and then raise but when holding something and triing for that it may happen that noone bets.

      And the last question when I cap and others call i have the initiative?:D Its theoretical question but in this situation is their bet "donk" because they may bet the last but they cant:D
    • PokerHammer
      PokerHammer
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2007 Posts: 209
      Originally posted by Alafoe
      The problem with capping 99 when button is a good way but when SB its not so easy. When you cap as button you can drive a game on avery street. As SB you have to bet flop, bet turn and then possibly bet the river. If you only coldcall you can fight for pot only in a good situation for you. So blinds are good place for defensive game.
      Capping or folding 99 in the SB is even more important.

      If you cold call OOP against two preflop raisers what sort of flop are you looking for?

      K94 YES!!! That was the flop I wanted!! OK, but what about K84, QQ7, 843, A55? How do you play these flops? Are you going to check/call the flop or check/fold? Maybe you should bet out? What about a check/raise on flops that look good?

      The time to make your decision is preflop. Cap or fold in the small blind. If you don't feel comfortable playing that hand in a 3-bet pot OOP then muck it. Otherwise cap it and lead the flop. You only need your 2 opponents to fold just over 7% of the time for a flop bet to be profitable in that situation. If you get raised then you can safely muck a lot of flops. If you get called then depending on the board you can often check/fold the turn.

      Some of the time you'll have the best hand. Some of the time you'll hit your set on the flop. Some of the time you'll get called by a better hand and hit your set on the turn!

      99 is a strong hand and be capped profitably against most opponents. However, if you're not confident enough yet with your postflop play then it's ok to fold it preflop, but whatever you do, don't cold call with 99 in the SB in a 3-bet pot!
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Thanks PokerHammer for you explaination. :)

      About your AK hand you just check and fold if you are unimproved. There are way better spots for you to make money from them. Against two it's very likely that you are beat so you give up and play accordingly to the odds and outs.
      Against one ou kep etting and maybe check/calling the river if no draw arrived to induce a bluff.

      I realize that your questions are a bit advanced so you might want to start studying the advanced strategies to understand everything correctly. (You probably already read the silver ones so maybe you can archieve gold soon.) :)