Can't even win at microstakes.

    • TheNutsCracked
      TheNutsCracked
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2014 Posts: 47
      :facepalm:

      I obviusly have a ton of leaks that i can't identify except for tilt.





      I do a lot or reading articles, watching the videos, attending like coaching sessions. Just still find some way to spew my chips.
  • 25 replies
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      The biggest problem I see is that you are not at all positionally aware.

      You are raising the exact same range of hands preflop from basically every position, instead of getting progressively looser from UTG to BTN.

      Also, you fold your SB and BB to steals very often, I am amazed to know how your redline is still positive while doing this?

      I'd be happy to help you out with some basic preflop ranges, add me on here if you'd like.
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      I noticed that your red graph is going up while your blue graph is going down. It's exactly the opposite way for me (then again, maybe I'm the one who is doing something wrong).

      Could it be that you're a little too loose postflop?
    • hockbrianey1
      hockbrianey1
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2011 Posts: 51
      My advice to you would be quit online poker, come to my Casino and bring your credit card. They have machines there. Then I would sit on my right and limp in every hand to your up or down a million. Whichever comes first.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      At least you got a good red line right?

      Not a cash game player so I can't really help you out there.

      Try getting that poker mindset book, I got it and it's great!
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Silver
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Hi TheNutsCracked,

      From my perspective, it looks that you are trying too hard. I think that you are often over- playing your cards just to play LAGish, and to have a cool red line, but you are not yet ready to control this game style so you often end up tilting, am I on the right track?

      I suggest you to stop concentrating on the red line, and focus on the green line which matters the most. Also, you will still beat micros greatly even with your red line constantly going down, so for now don't worry about your nsd winings, and try to play solid tilt- free poker. This will bring you success at micros, and afterwards, with more experience, you will be able to adjust your game to new limits, and start to experiment with new situations to bluff and take pots down without SD.

      Also, try to focus on your ranges from different positions, tighten up a little from EP, and try to play some more hands which play good postflop from CO and BU. Soon enough, you will discover the beauty of position with these playable hands, I'm sure.

      Hope that I helped,
      and if I completely missed your profile, sorry, at least I tried :)

      If you have any questions feel free to contact me,

      Cheers!
      Fran
    • TheNutsCracked
      TheNutsCracked
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2014 Posts: 47
      Thanks for the advice guys, seems like the majority are saying that my positional awareness is very bad atm, which i will work on.

      About the red line, i'm not trying to have a "cool" one lol. The only line on my mind is green.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      what variant are you playing? I assume NLHE but is it FR, 6-max,. Is it Zoom or regular tables?
    • larsonk7
      larsonk7
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2012 Posts: 137
      Hey!

      No idea what the graph means!

      Best way to beat micro stakes is to play tight and aggressive.

      Your whole strategy at this level should involve getting max value, cause players will call down really light. If you have a strong hand bet bet bet.

      Consequently try and keep bluffing to a minimum.

      Also another big leak at this level is that people will over play AK, Aces, Kings, a lot of players do not like to fold these post flop. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it is for many.

      Good luck!
    • TheNutsCracked
      TheNutsCracked
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2014 Posts: 47
      NLHE, it's probabaly around 97% FR, 3% 6max and i'm always on zoom.
    • Malendes
      Malendes
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 03.04.2011 Posts: 894
      Originally posted by TheNutsCracked
      About the red line, i'm not trying to have a "cool" one lol. The only line on my mind is green.
      Screw the green one, better look at the yellow :f_p:
    • Ganimator
      Ganimator
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2013 Posts: 189
      The difference between your PFR(10) and VPIP(20) is wayyyyyy too big. Fold more preflop after someone raises. Follow the rest of the advice given.
    • TheNutsCracked
      TheNutsCracked
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2014 Posts: 47
      Well i i started a session today taking all the new advce in mind and things went fine, i decided to go into a micro 180 man sng and got 3rd which was nice.

      Then i went on to the cash tables and i felt i was playing really well until a guy hit a backdoor flush on me on the river. You'll see by the graph what ensues so angry with myself. I have the weakest head game ever! I'm glad i stopped the session when i did even tho the damage was already done.

      I think i get angry and spew off because it annoys me that i done so much work to build my stack up then in 1 hand an hour of work is literally done for nothing. I have faith in myself.

      You hae to make these mistakes in order to learn i guess.

    • pauln
      pauln
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.03.2010 Posts: 191
      Originally posted by TheNutsCracked
      Well i i started a session today taking all the new advce in mind and things went fine, i decided to go into a micro 180 man sng and got 3rd which was nice.

      Then i went on to the cash tables and i felt i was playing really well until a guy hit a backdoor flush on me on the river. You'll see by the graph what ensues so angry with myself. I have the weakest head game ever! I'm glad i stopped the session when i did even tho the damage was already done.

      I think i get angry and spew off because it annoys me that i done so much work to build my stack up then in 1 hand an hour of work is literally done for nothing. I have faith in myself.
      I'm not a cash player although I can see some of the leaks others have pointed out.

      Mentally are you at the point yet where you're truly motivated to work on your game systematically and constructively? This is not a criticism but an actual question.

      If you are, you need to find the game that you enjoy the most and commit to it. The standard of poker even micro limits is high enough that you can't just walk in and expect to make money from it. You need to pick your game, cash or SNG, 6 max or full ring, zoom or not zoom. Pick one and specialize in it and don't play other games.

      In terms of tilt you are at least past the first hurdle in that you acknowledge it. Next you need to identify the causes and start working on it. I may be wrong but judging by what you said about the session going bad; you need to reduce the amount of tunnel vision.

      A guy hitting a backdoor flush on the river doesn't mean you played bad. You must determine the success of a session by the quality of decisions, not the uncontrollable results of those decisions. Look back through your session the next day hiding the other persons hands and be brutal with yourself.
      Second working hard for an hour doesn't entitle you to any sort of results. Results in poker come in months not hours. I played 9 tables of $5 SNGs for about 4 hours yesterday and came out with a $1.10 profit, I played pretty well although I made some mistakes, results are irrelevant until you have a big enough sample.

      Read the mental game of poker as Maythany suggested and start implementing some of the great strategy articles available on this site.

      Good luck :)
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Originally posted by pauln
      Originally posted by TheNutsCracked
      Well i i started a session today taking all the new advce in mind and things went fine, i decided to go into a micro 180 man sng and got 3rd which was nice.

      Then i went on to the cash tables and i felt i was playing really well until a guy hit a backdoor flush on me on the river. You'll see by the graph what ensues so angry with myself. I have the weakest head game ever! I'm glad i stopped the session when i did even tho the damage was already done.

      I think i get angry and spew off because it annoys me that i done so much work to build my stack up then in 1 hand an hour of work is literally done for nothing. I have faith in myself.
      I'm not a cash player although I can see some of the leaks others have pointed out.

      Mentally are you at the point yet where you're truly motivated to work on your game systematically and constructively? This is not a criticism but an actual question.

      If you are, you need to find the game that you enjoy the most and commit to it. The standard of poker even micro limits is high enough that you can't just walk in and expect to make money from it. You need to pick your game, cash or SNG, 6 max or full ring, zoom or not zoom. Pick one and specialize in it and don't play other games.

      In terms of tilt you are at least past the first hurdle in that you acknowledge it. Next you need to identify the causes and start working on it. I may be wrong but judging by what you said about the session going bad; you need to reduce the amount of tunnel vision.

      A guy hitting a backdoor flush on the river doesn't mean you played bad. You must determine the success of a session by the quality of decisions, not the uncontrollable results of those decisions. Look back through your session the next day hiding the other persons hands and be brutal with yourself.
      Second working hard for an hour doesn't entitle you to any sort of results. Results in poker come in months not hours. I played 9 tables of $5 SNGs for about 4 hours yesterday and came out with a $1.10 profit, I played pretty well although I made some mistakes, results are irrelevant until you have a big enough sample.

      Read the mental game of poker as Maythany suggested and start implementing some of the great strategy articles available on this site.

      Good luck :)
      big +1 to this post, especially picking the game you feel you are best at. I started out playing Single table SNG's and it tilted the hell out of me that I could play so many games and still not really make much money. I switched to NL BSS FR and did well by playing tight, value betting lots and not bluffing too much. Oh and bet/folding is pretty useful in a lot of spots IMO (mainly because the vast majority of players at the micros are Loose and passive, therefore if you make a bet and they raise you then chances are you're behind even with your sexy AA.

      BTW do you find you win a lot of smalls pots ( particularly preflop ) and tend to lose big pots postflop? I would be interested in watching you play a session.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Originally posted by muel294
      BTW do you find you win a lot of smalls pots ( particularly preflop ) and tend to lose big pots postflop? I would be interested in watching you play a session.
      This happened to me a LOT, and I think I know the reason:
      The villains at the table are better at folding than I am. I was hanging on to TPTK hands too tightly, for example.

      On each street now, I re-evaluate my hand and opponents range, and throw in board texture.

      If villains are good at folding, give them opportunity to fold -- be aggressive, but not overly so.

      Someone earlier said play bet/fold more -- if villains are folding too much this is the way to exploit them. If they raise, then when you fold, you are exploiting them still more.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • TheNutsCracked
      TheNutsCracked
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2014 Posts: 47
      Originally posted by muel294BTW do you find you win a lot of smalls pots ( particularly preflop ) and tend to lose big pots postflop? I would be interested in watching you play a session.
      THIS X1000, losing big pots post flop is whats ruining my sessions.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      My reason for asking this stems from the stats ( albeit a relatively small sample) that you posted. I think you played something like 20/10.

      Someone also posted that this may indicate that you are not "positionally aware" which is something that I would assume to be correct.

      Correct me if I'm wrong but the process probably goes something like this:
      1) start the session feeling confident and ready to crush
      2) Playing very tight and win a a number of small pots uncontested....feeling good
      3) you have something like AK+, QQ+ open and get called in 1 or more spots. Flop comes giving you something like an TP or an over pair (but a hand less than 2pr+ that you want to value bet). You bet and get check raised / raised :f_confused: :s_mad:

      You've been playing pretty tight and don't want to let go. After all they could be bluffing or overplaying a weaker hand.... so you either 3b/get it in or x/c and villain shows up with a set or turns/rivers something in the case of the x/c or b/c line.

      4) this causes you to play even tighter or not bluff at all or fold too much - TILT ( deviating from your a- game or an optimal strategy, i.e not just rage tilt that evokes a feeling of anger)

      5) Spew as a result of tilt. I would imagine it would be rage tilt / over aggression in your case due to the positive red line. Maybe you're emptying the clip everytime so opponents " don't suck out on you when you have a big hand " (remember we want them to call with worse - the definition of value betting - we don't want them to fold all their worse hands otherwise what's the point)

      Also you can only control your decision and actions during the hand. You cant control your opp's decisions or the cards that come....something to think about.

      If you think you're losing big pots postflop too often then maybe you need to look at your postflop game. Look at the types of hands and spots that you are stacking off in. Post some hands in the HH evalution forum. Is there an obvious leak. Do you stack off too light? Do you turn marginal hands, average made hands into bluffs? Do you adjust to player types properly?

      This is all just posftflop. It could stem from preflop decisions. Do you use a starting hand chart? If not, then maybe it is something to try. Are you playing too many tables? If you think yes, then reduce the number of tables until you see a marked improvment in the quality of decisions. Then you can go with quantity.

      By the way I finding your optimum game type is something to work on IMO. Personally I have just switched to normal ring games as opposed to zoom and I have a better winrate in normal games for the time being. Also something to think about.

      Ill add you in the community section if you fancy doing a sweat session.

      Cheers
    • er0men0s
      er0men0s
      Basic
      Joined: 27.05.2014 Posts: 4
      results are irrelevant until you have a big enough sample.

      I noticed this comment on one of the replies to "can't even win at microstakes."

      Kind of curious as to how big is a big enough sample. I'm like this gut and have over 7000 hands to my credit but I'm still losing. (cash games, that is.) Is this variance or is there enough data to make some evals of my play. For example, I tend to carry Top Pair good kicker too far. the only time I can assure I have a reasonable chance at success is when i have best kicker with my top pair. I do win some of these SD's but lose about 60% of them to a better kicker. I usually use 10 or better as my default kicker, but even against fish i lose more than I win.

      Anyway, just rambling. Was curious about any thoughts you all may have.
    • martinemem
      martinemem
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 596
      You can start making asumptions after 100k hands. But 500k-1m. Would be more precise.

      It might sound like a lot 4 tabling reg tables, but you cant really analyse stuff like 4b pot and river shoves etc with 100k hands.

      Cbet flop is another story.

      Lets say you are be over 100k hands - varianse. Now lets say you lose 10bb pr 100 hands over 100k hands. Then its unlikely to be varianse.

      You can however easy be a winning player of around 1-4bb pr 100 hands and lose 1bb pr 100 hands on 100k hands.
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