6max zoom help needed...

    • sweetlover88
      sweetlover88
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2013 Posts: 30
      Hey all!

      I need help from some grinders here that grind zoom and are being successful at it (nl50+). I've been playing poker for a living for the past year and a half having alot of success HU nl50-100 (11ptbb/100 over 230k hands) but for some reasons i'm getting smashed at 6max, specialy zoom (i'm down around 10 bi over 50k hands now...) It's bugging me as i know that i'm having, obviously, plenty of leaks but even after analyzing some of my database and my hands, i can't find what's going on. I do know that i'm losing alot of money on the bb but beside that i don't know and need you guys help. I want to get better at zoom since sometimes it can take hours to have action on the HU table and i think getting better at zoom would greatly help me boosting my hourly rate.

      Here some screenshots of my 6max hands database. Please let me know if you can identify what's going on. If you need any extra ss, please let me know.

      By looking at the flop hand strength, it looks like i might overplay top pair too much and call down too much, what you guys think?

      Thanks all

      Math






  • 9 replies
    • mesisification
      mesisification
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      I would guess that you might overplay weak top pairs. In heads-up poker you're calling down with those hands much more frequently that you should in NL50 zoom. For example, some1 opens 2,5x from the button and we call with A5s. Flop is A72r. Villain cbets 2/3 pot and we call. Turn is 2 and villain bets 3/4 of the pot. Versus a passive and solid player folding is the best play in my opinion, as tight as it sounds. If we decide to call on the turn then we should be check/folding on the river almost vs. anyone.

      Keep on mind that 50k hands might not tell you the truth.
    • sweetlover88
      sweetlover88
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2013 Posts: 30
      Hey, thanks for your fast reply!

      Well indeed 50k doesn't necessarly mean everything (i'm actually down 10 bi in ev) but i just feel like something is wrong in my play..

      Indeed in HU we are more incline to call down (and should we) against certain vilains because of the dynamic (i guess i take that HU side too much in 6max and tend to give vilain no credit...) but on the type of board u mentionned it's a snap fold for me too.

      I feel like i'm leveling myself more when it comes to (for example) spot like, when i have AJss in the bb, sb raise 3x i decide to call, flop come Ah8h2d he bet i call, then turn come 9d and he bet again, then river 3 and he bet again, in some spot like that i feel like i'm leveling myself into a call cause of the busted draw, hands that missed that he can turn into a bluff etc and tbh most of the time i turn out to be wrong. But i feel like there's more than that.

      My friend told me he found 6max easier than HU, i can't believe that.... i can't believe how come i crush HU and get crushed in 6max :o

      Sorry for my grammar btw as i'm not english native and thanks again for your answer
    • mesisification
      mesisification
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      I think your friend is right. 6max should be easier in a vacuum because in 6max players aren't forced to play nearly as many hands as in heads-up which makes HU much harder because you have to deal with very wide ranges all the time.

      If you really want to learn 6max I strongly recommend to hire a coach. By having a coach you would be able to find your leaks really fast and coach would help you to realize why your 6max game is weak compared to your HU game.

      But the most important thing is that you have probably more experience playing HU than 6max. Just keep practising and I would expect you to learn 6max pretty quickly. :)
    • sweetlover88
      sweetlover88
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2013 Posts: 30
      Well i am actually looking for a coach. I've contacted some people but no answer yet. If there's anyone here or if you have any recommendation it would be appreciated.

      As for which variant is more difficult, i guess it's because i've been playing so much HU that i find it much easier but for me when u play someone for quite a while, that person tends to do bunch of things often that you can build a read on. As for 6max, specialy zoom, i just feel like i have to focus on 5 person instead of 1 and i'm lost sometimes, dunno how to explain it hehe :)

      But yes if you have any recommendation or if anyone here see this and would be willing to help, please private message me.
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Gold
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Hi,

      When moving from one format to another, one need to adapt and understand crucial differences of the game. I think that working with a coach will help you a lot, look at it as an investment in your play, there are plenty of great crushers of SH zoom in our community, who are also offering coachings, you can find them here.

      Also, from my perspective, it seems that your non showdown winnings go down way too rapidly, maybe that's the starting point of revealong your leaks?

      All in all,
      Best of luck in improving and learning zoom,

      Hope to see you around the forum, and that you'll become a crusher in no time :)

      Fran
    • sweetlover88
      sweetlover88
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2013 Posts: 30
      Thanks for the answer and the link Frank!

      Indeed my non-showdown winnings is atrocious. Gonna have to work on that and i'm confident that it's part of the reason why i'm losing right now.
    • FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      FFRRAANNKKIIEE
      Gold
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 3,107
      Originally posted by sweetlover88
      Thanks for the answer and the link Frank!

      Indeed my non-showdown winnings is atrocious. Gonna have to work on that and i'm confident that it's part of the reason why i'm losing right now.
      No problem :) glade I helped,
      If you have any more questions feel free to contact me :)

      Cheers!
      Fran
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      [Edited by Lazza61 - Only PS coaches are able to advertise or promote coaching. Please refer to our forum principles for further details.]
    • SonMokuh
      SonMokuh
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 2,861
      Hi! When playing zoom, you need to have a solid Game against the average opponent. It doesn't matter too much, what one player is actually doing. It's important that your Gameplan is solid and exploits the pool as good as possible.

      Your positional winrates look like there's a problem in your overall gameplan. Your SB winrate looks fine, BB might be a little low, but should also be ok, if your UTG/MP/CO/BU winrates could compensate it.
      I think it's pretty standard, that you loose alot in the BB, but win alot in BU/CO at these stakes. The problem is: you are not winning enough when you voluntarily put money in the pot =)

      So the first things to discuss are:
      - What's your opening range in UTG/MP/CO/BU? Maybe SB too, but that looks fine. 30-100%, depending on your oppenent should be easy to play.
      - What's your calling range in & vs position? For example: BU calling vs UTG? SB calling vs MP? CO calling vs MP?
      - What's your 3betting range in & vs position? I'd differ between late position 3betting vs early position and blinds 3betting vs early/late position.

      The next thing I would focus on is playing postflop with initiative, as this should be the most common spot.
      - Which boards are good to cbet when you're holding air? K72r compared to QT9s ;)
      - What's your barrel plan? For example:
      Cbetting AJ on K72r => which turn cards do you barrel?
      Cbetting 67 on A:d5:h2 => turn barrels?
      - How do you play your preflop callingrange in specific postflop spots?

      These things obv. depend alot on your opponent, but it's important to have an estimation of what should be good against the average opponent (if you don't have any stats/reads), what's good against the average reg/fish and so on. You should have a solid ground from which you can adapt to tendencies of your opponents.

      The screenshots you posted aren't really useful imo. I'm not familiar with the "action facing player" filter, so I dont know how these stats should look like. Winrate by position is by far the most important screen in my opinion.

      I switched to NL50 Zoom some month ago, and it's gooing pretty good, so if you still need a coach, I'm at your disposal :)

      You can add me in skype: benni_g_punkt
      or contact me by posting in my private coaching thread (german community): Link