Doubting yourself

    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Hey everyone.

      I'm currently playing NL10 Zoom on pokerstars, and to be quite frank, i have no idea if i can beat this limit or whatnot. I've played around 100k hands and been break even, had a HUGE -EV line of 22BI's, and had some sick beats hand after hand after hand.

      I managed to grind my way back up out of -$ to break even, but i just seem to hang around this point and feel like i don't even know if i can beat this limit.
      I feel like saying i can, but the results just don't show. Have any of you had this problem?

      This was my graph of the hole:

      http://imageshack.com/a/img811/999/pxxj.png

      I posted a couple of times, people told me to keep my head up and don't focus on the short-term. So i kept going>

      http://imageshack.com/a/img845/6871/fb7q.png

      And this is my current one to date:

      http://imageshack.com/a/img546/4060/oaqu.png

      So as you can see, i had a huge downer at the start which really knocked my confidence and i've tried to grind it back up, but now i'm back down.

      Any advice on how to handle this shiz would be appreciated, and also if you've been through anythin like it please post!
  • 19 replies
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Hi,

      if you see you are not improving i would definetly invest in a coaching. Not only will you learn a lot, but you will also see where you are making the mistakes and fix them.

      It's kinda hard for you to learn any other way where are you making the mistakes. I haven't played nlh in over 2 years, but i'd assume nl10 should still be an easily beatable stake with the right approach.

      Regards,

      Skod
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by Skodljivec
      but i'd assume nl10 should still be an easily beatable stake with the right approach.
      Skod
      Yes.. this is what thought too, but apparently not. It depresses me lol - _ -
      I've put so much volume in and the results don't show. I've spoke to other people who have played and moved up, and they said even 100k isn't an enough for an accurate result. But others who have moved up did it in about this many hands, if not less.

      I have actually bought a database analysis report from bogdan which i'll be getting back in the next couple of days. So that will hopefully point out some flaws in my game.

      :s_cry:
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      I think Skodljivec is on stop with getting an expert opinion of a coach on your situation.

      It can actually be many reasons - your game might have leaks, you might only be a BE player when you don't play at your full focus, you might be tilting/autopiloting your money away...

      You need to be brutally honest with yourself and look for improvements on other aspects of poker game as well, and that's when you'll be able to find ways to improve.
    • ImpasX
      ImpasX
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2013 Posts: 81
      I'd really recommend getting a coach dude ! You know database analysis is nice, but you know with coach you could do sweat session and hand history analysis also. That's an investment to your future game, if it will fix your leaks, ull be in 25nl in no time !
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by ImpasX
      I'd really recommend getting a coach dude ! You know database analysis is nice, but you know with coach you could do sweat session and hand history analysis also. That's an investment to your future game, if it will fix your leaks, ull be in 25nl in no time !
      Yeah but coaching costs way too much, i personally think it's a ripoff for the price they charge for the limits i play :|
    • tonypmm
      tonypmm
      Silver
      Joined: 11.01.2009 Posts: 3,853
      I don't know if our stories are similar, but I'd recommend to first sort out any real-life issues that you're probably thinking about too much at the tables, and only then, when the mentality doesn't stop you from learning and applying coaches' advice, take it.

      It's hard not to be result-oriented if you think your value as a person is proportional to your bankroll.

      And no, coaching isn't too expensive if you take into account the BIs you win back after getting it. If in doubt, apply for a 'coaching-for-profit' deal (where you'll pay a cut of the difference between winrates 'before' and 'after') in the Private Coaching subforum.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by tonypmm
      I don't know if our stories are similar, but I'd recommend to first sort out any real-life issues that you're probably thinking about too much at the tables, and only then, when the mentality doesn't stop you from learning and applying coaches' advice, take it.

      It's hard not to be result-oriented if you think your value as a person is proportional to your bankroll.

      And no, coaching isn't too expensive if you take into account the BIs you win back after getting it. If in doubt, apply for a 'coaching-for-profit' deal (where you'll pay a cut of the difference between winrates 'before' and 'after') in the Private Coaching subforum.
      My bankroll doesn't effect me in anyway outside of poker. It's for poker so it doesn't have any effect on my IRL life.

      And coaching is too expensive, for me. Just for abit of advice about poker they charge aloaad of money, i find it ridiculous. We aint all baller'z.
    • ImpasX
      ImpasX
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2013 Posts: 81
      Well 40-50$ for 1 hour session isnt so much, comparing to what you could win after it, i think !

      If coaching is too expensive, watch some videos, on pokerstrategy, dragthebar, deucescracked then ;o
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Impax. You get coaching, i'll get this review, and we'll compare :)
    • ImpasX
      ImpasX
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2013 Posts: 81
      allright ;D
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Pretty sure that your results are not all luck based. Show us your stats more, graph can't show whether you make mistakes or not, it only shows outcome of your actions (i.e. results).

      Post a graph with redline and blueline winnings plus shows stats per position, i.e. VPIP, PFR, RFI, Cold call, 3bet, Fold 3bet, 4bet range, Fold 4bet, cbet flop, cbet turn, fold flop to cbet, fold turn to cbet, wtsd, river call efficiency. Then we can judge whether you had bad run or whether you can't beat NL10 even with your "right" approach.

      The reality is that if you don't beat a limit, it will mostly be because you have BAD approach and your mindset is SHIT. So you have to work on both part constantly. And as many have pointed out already, coaching is the best way how to sort things out very quickly and qualitatively.

      Even after database analysis, once you get your mistakes pointed out, you will not get the guidance how to fix them, at least not as in-depth as would coach suggest you to fix leaks. Coach will work with you and make you understand what is the problem and how to fix it.

      Regards,

      Rihard
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Pretty sure that your results are not all luck based. Show us your stats more, graph can't show whether you make mistakes or not, it only shows outcome of your actions (i.e. results).

      Post a graph with redline and blueline winnings plus shows stats per position, i.e. VPIP, PFR, RFI, Cold call, 3bet, Fold 3bet, 4bet range, Fold 4bet, cbet flop, cbet turn, fold flop to cbet, fold turn to cbet, wtsd, river call efficiency. Then we can judge whether you had bad run or whether you can't beat NL10 even with your "right" approach.

      The reality is that if you don't beat a limit, it will mostly be because you have BAD approach and your mindset is SHIT. So you have to work on both part constantly. And as many have pointed out already, coaching is the best way how to sort things out very quickly and qualitatively.

      Even after database analysis, once you get your mistakes pointed out, you will not get the guidance how to fix them, at least not as in-depth as would coach suggest you to fix leaks. Coach will work with you and make you understand what is the problem and how to fix it.

      Regards,

      Rihard
      I agree, i may have a SHIT mindset and a BAD approach.

      The database analysis though, i can ask bogdan questions and stuff after. So i think it's more value then coaching, as with coaching you get 1 hour live (which is like what, 1k hands max) and with this it's over a large sample and can sort out some big leaks that keep reoccuring. Or at least that's what im hoping.

      I'll post again once i've got the review and,.. reviewed it :D
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      You clearly have never taken any coaching before. Because it seems that coaching for you is live sweat session, which is not.

      Coaching > Database analysis. Why? For these simple reasons:

      1) Database analysis doesn't teach you how to think, you will only know that you have leaks in certain spots but you will now know what causes them or how exactly to fix them.

      2) With database analysis you will know that you don't cbet enough flop turn or rivers, or you don't fold enough flops turns and rivers etc. Coaching on other hand will teach you how to determine where you should have cbetted or folded, raised or called. You will be able to construct villains range and your perceived range after you or villain did XYZ.

      3) Will finally start to think properly when playing if you have coaching. Database analysis won't make you think because you won't know how to think.

      4) You become accountable to your coach that you have learn shit and implement them otherwise he will be very hard on you and thats a big plus. It's like a coach in any other sport, e.g. basketball, ice hockey you name it. Extra confidence boost and motivation in other words.

      5) Profit.

      I think there are plenty more thing that can be said about coaching sessions, but what I can see is that you don't really understand what they are in the first place. Ask any PRO what would they do different if they had to start their poker career from scratch. And they will all tell you that they would get a coach at the very start. Why? YOU LEARN FASTER THAT WAY!

      Think about it.

      Rihard
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      I haven't ever had coaching before.
      There's no way i'm not saying it's valuable, it's just i think it's too much money when i hardly have any. I would love to get coaching, and maybe i will in the future.

      BUT
      stop hating on my database review. I can ask him questions like i could a coach (such as, why should i not be doing blahblah in blahblah) and it is going to be valuable.

      Time will tell!
      I'll post back once i've got it and had a read. Who knows, maybe i'll be killin it 10Bigs/100 after reading :D
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      BTW i assume you've had coaching richard - what do you play? and whats you're BB/100 an how many hands?
    • jawoftheox
      jawoftheox
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2013 Posts: 216
      Coaching costs not much more than decent footwear. Would you buy Nike sneakers if you could walk faster and jump higher, and later they give you your money back, even more than you paid! It's an investment, not a bigmac
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Originally posted by DecMate
      Originally posted by ImpasX
      I'd really recommend getting a coach dude ! You know database analysis is nice, but you know with coach you could do sweat session and hand history analysis also. That's an investment to your future game, if it will fix your leaks, ull be in 25nl in no time !
      Yeah but coaching costs way too much, i personally think it's a ripoff for the price they charge for the limits i play :|
      Still think that? I just saw you seamed very happy from the coaching you got :f_cool:
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by Skodljivec
      Originally posted by DecMate
      Originally posted by ImpasX
      I'd really recommend getting a coach dude ! You know database analysis is nice, but you know with coach you could do sweat session and hand history analysis also. That's an investment to your future game, if it will fix your leaks, ull be in 25nl in no time !
      Yeah but coaching costs way too much, i personally think it's a ripoff for the price they charge for the limits i play :|
      Still think that? I just saw you seamed very happy from the coaching you got :f_cool:
      noooooe.

      :f_biggrin:

      Okay so i checked out w34z3l's coaching thread, watched a couple of his videos and liked his approach, and he happens to have a discounted price for the first session of 35$ (which is reasonable).

      And i gotta say, i completely take back what i said. Coaching has helped me clear all doubts i had and set me on a better track. +1 to coaching :f_biggrin:

      #IFeelLikeAnIdiot
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      ..But one thing coaching can't do is save you from this:

      PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $7.50 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      SB: $10.00 (VPIP: 11.66, PFR: 8.07, 3Bet Preflop: 3.47, Hands: 455)
      BB: $12.19 (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
      UTG: $11.15 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
      UTG+1: $26.73
      UTG+2: $9.02
      MP: $6.00 (VPIP: 8.78, PFR: 4.73, 3Bet Preflop: 1.64, Hands: 148)
      MP+1: $10.15 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
      Hero (CO): $12.12

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has T:spade: T:diamond:

      fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to $0.40, fold, MP+1 calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($1.35, 3 players) T:heart: 9:diamond: 2:diamond:
      UTG+2 bets $0.60, MP+1 calls $0.60, Hero raises to $2.20, fold, MP+1 raises to $9.75 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.55

      Turn: ($21.45, 2 players) J:spade:

      River: ($21.45, 2 players) 4:diamond:

      MP+1 shows J:diamond: J:heart: (Three of a Kind, Jacks) (Pre 82%, Flop 17%, Turn 98%)
      Hero mucks T:spade: T:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 18%, Flop 83%, Turn 2%)
      MP+1 wins $20.48

      U_U
      LONG LIVE THE GRIND