BB defense vs BTN min raise strategy.

  • 27 replies
    • mesisification
      mesisification
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      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      Looks decent to me.

      What about our 3bet bluff range? Could we include there K2o-K5o hands? 54o/65o?
    • Itsnevereasy
      Itsnevereasy
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      Joined: 08.08.2010 Posts: 381
      the hands in red is the 3betting range. Thought it was obvious...
    • Itsnevereasy
      Itsnevereasy
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      Joined: 08.08.2010 Posts: 381
      Looks decent to me.


      you defend 71% BB vs BTN? :f_eek:
    • mesisification
      mesisification
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      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      Right, lol. :D

      Versus a minraise I think I do defend close to that.
    • iiikrrr
      iiikrrr
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      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 524
      Originally posted by mesisification
      Versus a minraise I think I do defend close to that.
      How has it been working? :) I don't think that I have needed postflopskills to play that much from OOP. :D How do you play (post)flops then?
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      V a 50% range it looks really wide. I also think KQ should be a 3b, could go either way with 99. I'd probably defend something like:



      But I'm only playing nl20 so take my range with a pinch of salt!
    • mesisification
      mesisification
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      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      Originally posted by holmeboy
      V a 50% range it looks really wide. I also think KQ should be a 3b, could go either way with 99. I'd probably defend something like:



      But I'm only playing nl20 so take my range with a pinch of salt!
      To me folding K7o for example looks extremely tight. I really think that you should defend atleast a bit wider.
    • mesisification
      mesisification
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      Joined: 05.08.2011 Posts: 1,465
      Originally posted by iiikrrr
      Originally posted by mesisification
      Versus a minraise I think I do defend close to that.
      How has it been working? :) I don't think that I have needed postflopskills to play that much from OOP. :D How do you play (post)flops then?
      It works for me I think. People usually assume that you have to be god postflop in order to be able to defend a hand like T7o but I don't necessarily think that's the case. We can play fit-fold(ish) and that's ok since we're getting 3,5:1.

      "How do you play postflops" is a really general question, I can't really answer to that. I'm not doing anything super crazy, I just try to pay attension to sizing/timing/boardtexture, how my range hits certain boards vs. villains range etc...
    • iiikrrr
      iiikrrr
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      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 524
      [quote]Originally posted by mesisification
      [quote]Originally posted by iiikrrr
      Originally posted by mesisification
      "How do you play postflops" is a really general question, I can't really answer to that. I'm not doing anything super crazy, I just try to pay attension to sizing/timing/boardtexture, how my range hits certain boards vs. villains range etc...
      Yeah obviously so. Mainly meant the flops, and interested in your donking ranges. I can see playing that wide against some bad posflop players, but against some good regs sounds pretty wide to me. :D

      Just checked my database and vs BTN min opr I have 25/12,6 :D Compared to your 71% it's very very nit. Had -25bb/100, though a small sample, all hands played in nl50. How's your wr at blinds in these situations?
    • stttNNN
      stttNNN
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      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 1,333
      Intresting thread! :)

      On my fullring games alot of regs opens for 3.5x BTN for about 35%. What range do we def in BB against that? Right now im folding about 80% so i think it is maybe to tight and i need to def a bit wider..
    • stttNNN
      stttNNN
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      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 1,333
      do anybody have some kind off leak that we are looking for when we decide to call OOP? some kind off nice stat to put in then hud? :)
    • stttNNN
      stttNNN
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      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 1,333
      bump!

      intresting thread! :)

      On my fullring games alot of regs opens for 3.5x BTN for about 35%. What range do we def in BB against that? Right now im folding about 80% so i think it is maybe to tight and i need to def a bit wider..
      -
      do anybody have some kind off leak that we are looking for when we decide to call OOP? some kind off nice stat to put in then hud? :)
    • booomm
      booomm
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by stttNNN
      do anybody have some kind off leak that we are looking for when we decide to call OOP? some kind off nice stat to put in then hud? :)
      high fold to raise vs cbet coupled with a high cbet. just check raise like a maniac until they adjust.
      some regs like to delay cbet alot BUvsSB/BB, you just have to figure out what their ranges are in those spots and adjust, they mostly do it with TP weak kicker type of hands, that's my 'population read' anyaway, raise the turn big when they do it and bomb the river, unless vilain is call happy or the board is too inviting to bluff catch.
      there are a ton of leaks the average reg have on this kind of situations, if I could come up with others I will post here.
    • stttNNN
      stttNNN
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      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 1,333
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by stttNNN
      do anybody have some kind off leak that we are looking for when we decide to call OOP? some kind off nice stat to put in then hud? :)
      high fold to raise vs cbet coupled with a high cbet. just check raise like a maniac until they adjust.
      some regs like to delay cbet alot BUvsSB/BB, you just have to figure out what their ranges are in those spots and adjust, they mostly do it with TP weak kicker type of hands, that's my 'population read' anyaway, raise the turn big when they do it and bomb the river, unless vilain is call happy or the board is too inviting to bluff catch.
      there are a ton of leaks the average reg have on this kind of situations, if I could come up with others I will post here.
      thank you for the answer booom! :)

      what type of boards do you like to X/R on? :) I think paired boards is rely good X/R cause we can rep a set on this boards and in the same way FI cant have mush.

      would you bee more carefull to call in BB if we face a 3.5x open steal from BTN if FI opens only 36%?


      $2.50/$5 No Limit Holdem
      3 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      BTN ($990.63) 198bb
      SB ($811.09) 162bb
      stttNNN (BB) ($497.50) 100bb

      Pre-Flop: ($7.50, 3 players) stttNNN is BB Q:diamond: 9:diamond:
      BTN raises to $17.50, SB folds, stttNNN calls $12.50

      Flop: 5:club: 2:heart: 10:spade: ($37.50, 2 players)
      stttNNN checks, BTN bets $28.12, stttNNN raises to $74.99, BTN folds

      Final Pot: $44.53
      stttNNN shows
      Q:diamond: 9:diamond:

      stttNNN wins $138.27 (net +$50.78)

      BTN lost $45.62
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,888
      Originally posted by stttNNN
      what type of boards do you like to X/R on? :) I think paired boards is rely good X/R cause we can rep a set on this boards and in the same way FI cant have mush.
      funny that you say that, there's another school of thought that thinks you rep nothing because trips are a really narrow range and many players don't raise them otf. :D

      who's "right"? whatever! just find out which type of villain he is :f_biggrin:
    • dooleslovs
      dooleslovs
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      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 484
      Rake eats all profit then you try to defend bottom 20% of 71% on nl50 and lower. You prevent your opp from having ev+ opens with weak hands but you do not gain anything your self becouse rake is huge in min single raised pots. And just stars benifit from it. So i better leave more ev+ opens for my opp. Its better for poker ecosystem imo :)
    • stttNNN
      stttNNN
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      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 1,333
      who's "right"? whatever! just find out which type of villain he is :f_biggrin:
      True , I will try to be more creative and see how people react to it. :)


      Rake eats all profit then you try to defend bottom 20% of 71% on nl50 and lower. You prevent your opp from having ev+ opens with weak hands but you do not gain anything your self becouse rake is huge in min single raised pots. And just stars benifit from it. So i better leave more ev+ opens for my opp. Its better for poker ecosystem imo :)
      I think the rake is pretty low on my main site "Svenska Spel" so the rake will not take away to mush profit.

      Do you guys have any idea how mush you would defend against a regular that opens 3.5x 36% off the time from BTN and what type off range would you consider to defend? :)
    • dooleslovs
      dooleslovs
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      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 484
      Not much. Top 30% at most.
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
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      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      Paired flops are the worse to CR. I don't think ive ever folded A hi to a XR on these boards as you rep nothing and its easy to 3b or float the raise.

      Fish min raise Paired flops and fold like 98% of the time so I usually 3bet them, sometimes call and raise their turn lead but mostly just take it down on the flop. I do that with virtually my entire range that has a least an over card because it works literally everytime time. In fact now when in a pot vs a fish and the flop is paired I cbet bigger so their flop MR has to be bigger and more for me when the fold. Just over a click it back I make it usually.

      Unless I actually have a pair obviously the I just call them down.

      Vs regs I would float the flop raise and bet turn when they give up.

      The best boards to bluff are usually middling connected flops, like 758 etc. Especially if its a two tone.

      Think about it. How do you feel when you hold aces and get CR on the turn on a 9746 board?

      If its a 2tone id be more inclined to raise the flop as we have more bluff outs (flush cards). If its monotone id be more inclined to raise turn as we often wouldn't raise sets on fairly dry flops.

      J9 or JTx is also a fairly decent board to attack but with both types of board you need a villain that cbets too much as often a good reg won't cbet these boards and may even pot control the flop with a made hand too.

      You also need to know if they pot control on the flop or turn as if its turn then you need to make the play on the flop.

      Personally I often pot control on the flop instead of turn when I have a made hand as the flop raise really gets the pot out of control

      Also we are often we are only getting 2 streets of value from villains made hand range its much easier to do when you check flop. This way also often gets you two streets from their air range too.

      Makes it virtually impossible to stack me when you hit a set too on these board meaning you can't really call small PPs profitably. Not that most players realise this however.
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