Spr

    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
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      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      Lets say both opponents have 100bb in a heads up game. Raise to 3bb preflop and a call. Now pot is 6bb. Then someone bets 3bb on the flop so the pot becomes 9bb. Is 9bb calculated into SPR or only the 2 bets that went in preflop I.E 6bb?

      Thanks
  • 11 replies
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Hashkan
      Lets say both opponents have 100bb in a heads up game. Raise to 3bb preflop and a call. Now pot is 6bb. Then someone bets 3bb on the flop so the pot becomes 9bb. Is 9bb calculated into SPR or only the 2 bets that went in preflop I.E 6bb?

      Thanks
      9bb. SPR is always based off the current pot.

      Don't see why it'd really matter though as there's no real in-game calculations where you need to know the exact SPR, at least not that I know of.
    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
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      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      Ty metza.

      Im thinking of SplitSuits tips, where he said he dont fold top pair/over pair vs fish if the SPR is 3.
    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
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      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      SPR is the stack to pot ratio after the preflop action is done. So a cbet dosnt count into the SPR.
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Hashkan
      SPR is the stack to pot ratio after the preflop action is done. So a cbet dosnt count into the SPR.
      Really? That seems silly to me, so if sb minraise pre, you call in bb, pot is 4bb, and sb jams 96bb, then the SPR is still 24????

      This would mean that SPR completely ignores betsizing which imo would make it a useless concept to make decisions from.
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
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      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      Originally posted by metza
      Really? That seems silly to me, so if sb minraise pre, you call in bb, pot is 4bb, and sb jams 96bb, then the SPR is still 24????
      If i understand this right, you're saying that in this case SPR should be ~1? Imo that would be much more weirder. :)
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by PerusJamppa
      Originally posted by metza
      Really? That seems silly to me, so if sb minraise pre, you call in bb, pot is 4bb, and sb jams 96bb, then the SPR is still 24????
      If i understand this right, you're saying that in this case SPR should be ~1? Imo that would be much more weirder. :)
      How is that weird? When he jams there is roughly the same amount in the pot as there is in your stack...

      I don't understand why it wouldn't be based off current pot when the P in SPR is Pot.
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
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      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      Originally posted by metza
      How is that weird? When he jams there is roughly the same amount in the pot as there is in your stack...

      I don't understand why it wouldn't be based off current pot when the P in SPR is Pot.
      SPR gives only some rough ideas how strong hand we need to continue and which way we want/can/should continue.

      For example in low SPR situation we can easily stack off with much more weaker hand than in high SPR situation. In your example, if villain shoves that 98bb in 4bb pot and we decide that the SPR is 1, we should call with many relatively weak hands in spot where we need to have almost 50% equity to BE.

      SPR number is based on pot odds so you can't just decide that in example above SPR is 1 (33,33% equity needed) when you actually need close to the 50%.
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by PerusJamppa
      Originally posted by metza
      How is that weird? When he jams there is roughly the same amount in the pot as there is in your stack...

      I don't understand why it wouldn't be based off current pot when the P in SPR is Pot.
      SPR gives only some rough ideas how strong hand we need to continue and which way we want/can/should continue.

      For example in low SPR situation we can easily stack off with much more weaker hand than in high SPR situation. In your example, if villain shoves that 98bb in 4bb pot and we decide that the SPR is 1, we should call with many relatively weak hands in spot where we need to have almost 50% equity to BE.

      SPR number is based on pot odds so you can't just decide that in example above SPR is 1 (33,33% equity needed) when you actually need close to the 50%.
      Ok, I see your point on the first part if we're just using it as a rough guide on how light to stackoff then I am wrong on the 1 and you're right its 24. I still don't see the need to work out an exact SPR then, rather just understanding in general that if there's more money in the pot then ranges for getting it in are always gonna be lighter since betting a certain % of the pot is more bb.

      You could use generic gimmicks like "dont fold top pair/over pair vs fish if the SPR is 3" but imo this is not that useful since not all "fish" are the same, if you get check/minraised by a super passive fish with TPNK in a squeeze pot, stacking off is gonna be terrible.

      When you start bringing in specific numbers you contradict your first point of it being a rough concept, and instead it makes it a longer process to work out what equity we need than just going off the pot odds straight away, therefore making SPR a kinda useless concept if you're using it concretely rather than as a general concept...
    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
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      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      Here you can read more about it http://www.splitsuit.com/spr-poker-strategy

      Ofc SPR is not the hole picture, but it helps you to make decisions.
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
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      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      Imo SPR is useful tool for planning your hand ahead and it doesn't hurt to master it. I've readed that book like ages ago so i'm not sure, but i recall that the authors themselves said that it should not be used as a complete guide how to play like some Sklansky-Chubukov-Nash-Whatever-charts they use in SNG's.
      They (maybe) also said that if you're facing tough decision and you're like 50-50 what to do, then you could use SPR to help you out.

      Every player differ from another so decisions should allways based on the villain's style than anything else.

      But overall SPR it's quite interesting concept and i think it's worth of studying. Especially in PLO i've found it very helpful, almost crucial thing to understand.
    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
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      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      Yeah definitly brought my game up after learning about it :)