Add-ons: At what point are they worth it?

    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,033
      Here is the situation:

      In the PokerStars "Privilege" Freeroll, one can add on 2000 chips for $0.30

      Min cash is $0.12 at 3600 players.
      to get your $0.30 back you need to finish at least 1710th.

      At the add-on break I am 2266 out of 3770 (22673 original entrants)

      Is the add-on worth it?
      Are there cost/benefit calculations that can be done to determine this?

      Out of the 3770 player in at the add-on 583 figured it was worth it.

      I held on to my coinage figuring my surpassingly great [ luck | skill ] will more than make up for it.

      Thanks,
      --VS
  • 10 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Hi,

      I myself don't have any calculations for this thing. I just generally play these privilege freerolls as long as I have stack. I don't buy extra as I think I have some sort of an edge to the field, it's also a freeroll so investing into it seems odd.

      In some other add on tournaments I will take add on, as it gives us a clear advantage and it can help us to win big. And we have already invested to the tournament, so buying extra chips seems +EV.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      I'm no MTT expert but it depends the MTT format. In turbos they are less worth it because blind level increase fast, so they drop in value real fast. Some good add-ons on turbos are worth it, such as 30k chips in the daily $1 3x turbo where the normal rebuy is just 3k chips.

      In regular speed they are worth it usually.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Silver
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,349
      It depends on my stack and how far away the bubble is (which is pretty much stating the obvious :) ). I rarely add on unless I can increase my stack with at least 34-40%.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Silver
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,349
      I think that it is possible (in principle) to make an ICM calculation giving an exact answer (assuming equal skill). But for a large field with hundreds of players, such an exact calculation would take forever and requires knowledge of all remaining stacks. Besides, you never know how many other players (and which players) will add on, something that affects the decision.

      There's probably a reasonable approximation around.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,460
      In most cases the addon will always be worth taking, because it costs the same amount as the initial buyin and adds more chips in comparison. Therefore it is +EV.

      However, in your special case, I wouldn't take the addon. The amount of chips that is added is not substantial enough and the payouts won't reflect the fact that addons were available.

      Since the buyin itself is for free I guess the addon would be -EV.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,033
      Originally posted by Asaban
      In most cases the addon will always be worth taking, because it costs the same amount as the initial buyin and adds more chips in comparison. Therefore it is +EV.

      However, in your special case, I wouldn't take the addon. The amount of chips that is added is not substantial enough and the payouts won't reflect the fact that addons were available.

      Since the buyin itself is for free I guess the addon would be -EV.

      Regards,
      Asaban
      Thanks,
      That was my conclusion, but I'm an MTT noob.
      The pattern in these is a whole lot of open-shoving going on -- and an equal number of wildly wide calls. Some of the losers rebuy multiple times.

      Since the rebuys and add-ons are infinitely more expensive than the initial buy in, I just wait 6 hours for another buy-in.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • AceSteph
      AceSteph
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.03.2010 Posts: 6,373
      Originally posted by Asaban
      In most cases the addon will always be worth taking, because it costs the same amount as the initial buyin and adds more chips in comparison. Therefore it is +EV.
      It's true that you'll get more chips, but it's not the "right approach" I feel. Chips don't matter all that much, how many bbs you get is important.

      Maybe you'll get 1500 for a normal rebuy and the add-on is 2000. Which might seem nice. But for 1500 you might get 75bbs and only 10bbs for that seemingly more 2000.

      So never consider how many chips you'll get, but how much it is worth in bbs. Thinking in absolute terms is not that good (since the same 10.000 chips might be worth 100bbs or 2bbs), so always think in relative terms.

      I usually buy the add-on. Exception is when the add-on gives me less than 15bbs or doesn't increase might stack with more than 20%.
    • Ustrix
      Ustrix
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2012 Posts: 15
      Hi All,

      Thanks to all who posted in this thread so far, some really good/interesting points of view, that I've not really taken into account before.
      (Shame on me, I know, but never thought there was this much thought behind a decision like this).

      For what its worth, I would follow AceSteph, as I always try to convert my stack to BB as I find this easier to deal with, rather than chip stacks.

      Have fun folks and thanks again.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by AceSteph
      Originally posted by Asaban
      In most cases the addon will always be worth taking, because it costs the same amount as the initial buyin and adds more chips in comparison. Therefore it is +EV.
      It's true that you'll get more chips, but it's not the "right approach" I feel. Chips don't matter all that much, how many bbs you get is important.

      Maybe you'll get 1500 for a normal rebuy and the add-on is 2000. Which might seem nice. But for 1500 you might get 75bbs and only 10bbs for that seemingly more 2000.

      So never consider how many chips you'll get, but how much it is worth in bbs. Thinking in absolute terms is not that good (since the same 10.000 chips might be worth 100bbs or 2bbs), so always think in relative terms.
      I dunno if that applies, since a single BB is worth far more $ in later stage off tournament (ie add-on stage) than the beginning (early stage).

      I mean lets say if blinds start 10/20 starting stack is 3k and you can only choose one add on the whole mtt:

      either add on 2k right away for 100bb, or if you didn't add on to start, you can add on at 1.5hr break and get 10k for the same price, when blinds are 500/1000, I am sure as hell getting the second one even though it is just 1/10 of the amount of bb.

      It might sound like exaggeration example but there are some tournies like this where addon is 10x amount of chips of rebuy...
    • MJPerry
      MJPerry
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2011 Posts: 4,908
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Here is the situation:

      In the PokerStars "Privilege" Freeroll, one can add on 2000 chips for $0.30

      Min cash is $0.12 at 3600 players.
      to get your $0.30 back you need to finish at least 1710th.

      At the add-on break I am 2266 out of 3770 (22673 original entrants)

      Is the add-on worth it?
      Are there cost/benefit calculations that can be done to determine this?

      Out of the 3770 player in at the add-on 583 figured it was worth it.

      I held on to my coinage figuring my surpassingly great [ luck | skill ] will more than make up for it.

      Thanks,
      --VS
      Bear in mind you're not just looking to get your $0.30 back, you want to win.

      I think the number of BBs the addon gives you and your stack size is the overriding factor.

      Extreme example 1: I'd always take a 5k addon if the blinds were 25/50.
      Extreme example 2: I'd not bother with a 5k addon if I had 200k in chips.