NL5 player need guidance

    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      Hi,
      I'm new to this forum, and i started playing poker a week and a half ago...
      I have a friend who introduced me to it (i played it before but had no goals)...
      I'm playing NL5 just because poker770 has no "NL2 speed",
      my bankroll is 46$ atm, i started with 60$ and got to 115$, but i fell....
      this is why i'm looking for guidance


      I made a video just now in hope that people will guide me and point to my mistakes, i know i made them, but i want to know in certain hands what could i have done better...
      If you have time please review my video ;)


      Thanks,
      Eggie6
  • 17 replies
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      Sorry mate, your video is "private", we can't watch it.

      I can't say much about the graph alone since it's a pretty small sample and there is no other information. Could it be that you have tilt issues, though? It seems like you did quite well until that bad beat at around 1k hands, after which your blue line was continuously dropping, which I guess could mean that you have been too loose postflop.

      I'm currently playing the same games, btw, so I guess I'll see you at the tables.
    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      Hi,
      sorry about video issues, i solved it, i think i might have one one those "tilt" thingy's :P
      the problem is that i always tilt after i get rivered, like: i hold KK and my opponent was bluffing all the way, till he hit Ace on the river!
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      If you tilt a lot after being rivered etc, you might want to leave the table for a while when you feel like you're not on your a-game anymore. It's up to you to decide whether or not you're still in the right mindset.

      I'll give the video a watch soon. Just one thing in advance: Why is there no HUD on the table if you own Pokertracker?
    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      It somehow got bugged and it wasn't showing, i usually use it
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      I finally got around to seeing it, sorry for the delay.
      Please keep in mind that I'm just another moderately successful NL5 grinder, so I'm by no means an authority on any of that. I'd appreciate it if other people could join this discussion and correct me whenever I'm wrong.

      First off, I think your preflop hand selection was pretty solid overall, but you could have been more aggressive with drawing hands like suited connectors. I would have raised hands like 2:12 (K9s), 2:43 (76s), 13:40 (J9s), and possibly 8:04 (65s). You can find some more advice on this in w34z3l's new 6-max course (1st video, discussion thread), and in this article.

      Second, your postflop betsizing seems to be a little off at times. Specific examples:
      3:20-4:00 (KJos): Those are relatively small bets considering we're in a multiway pot. I'm also not sure what you're trying to represent. After villain called the flop, I would have given up on that turn, even though your bet worked in this case.
      4:53-5:40 (K5s): Did you have reads on villain? I'd be careful with those re-steals if you have no stats to back you up. Your bets are again pretty small, especially on the turn, I don't think you'll accomplish much with a 1/3 pot bet there.
      8:58-9:50 (KQos): That's a pretty small preflop raise, what was your plan? Flops like this are tricky to play, but I think you should bet bigger (potsize?) to protect your hand, and fold to a re-raise. After a call and a big raise, I would have folded, and I think even pushing would have been a better alternative to calling there. Nice fold on the turn imo. However, I see you were considering a 1/2 pot bet for a while. That doesn't make much sense, you should have pushed if you wanted to bet (which I wouldn't recommend).
      11:51-13:13 (AKs): I think I would have called preflop, but raising isn't a mistake. I'm not sure why you raised such a small amount, though. Calling the re-raise is fine imo. On that flop, you should aim for an all-in, so I don't really like the 1/3 pot bet. As played, I still would have pushed the turn.
      16:46 (JJ): Not sure what you tried to accomplish with the check-raise on the turn. I just would have called the minbet based on the odds. Other than that, I would have played that hand the same way as you.
      18:21-18:36 (AA): Pretty small betsizing again, which brings me to my next point.

      You seem to have different preflop bet sizes based on the strength of your hand (11:51, 18:21 and 20:26 come to mind). This playing style can be exploitable in the long run, even though you may be able get away with more stuff like that in Speed Poker than in reg games. I'd advise you to use the same bet size for bluff and value bets.

      You can find advice on (postflop) betsizing in this video (the section about betsizing starts at 21:05, but the rest of the video is helpful as well, if you have the time).

      I also noticed that "auto top up" was not enabled. Playing with less than a full stack is not advised, but it might make sense in your case since your underrolled.
      Also, if you don't feel confident with your deep stacked play (not sure if that's the case), you might consider leaving the table once you have 150BB and return with a normal 100BB stack.

      That's all for now. Like I said, I'm just a fellow NL5 player, so feel free to question anything I said. I might be cheaper than a coach, but that doesn't mean I'm as competent. :f_wink:
    • stukkrapoel
      stukkrapoel
      Silver
      Joined: 13.05.2009 Posts: 652
      Maybe better to make a vid with you commetin'? You could make a raise in a spot thats right but with the wrong tought behind it.
    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      Harrier, after i read your review, i made a profit of 35 yesterday, i`m gonna answer your questions tomorrow
      Stukk, i made one video on youtube with commentary, and my friend told me never to repeat that, as my voice is not 'soft' :) but that could be so true.... most of my winnings before yesterday was from other ppl folding, and losses were like flush ace high vs flush K high, and things like that
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      I just looked you up in my database, I only have 50 or so hands on you, but you call far too loose pre-flop, especially in the big blind

      I also see a few hands where you call 3 streets with no equity and no strong draws.

      Basically work on tightening up a bit, and playing more agressive with that tighter range
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      Yo Eggie,

      I just saw you post this in another thread:
      Originally posted by Eggie6
      i had a bad run, (from 116$ to 20$ in 3 days)
      than i had a very good run (20$ to 90$ in 2 days)
      now i'm on a bad run again (90$ to 30$ in 2 days),
      I don't know how many hands you play each day, so I can't really tell if those are normal swings or if you're just playing too loose.

      Do you want to talk about this?
    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      sure, here's the graph to make it more clear :)


      iPoker - €0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 67.2 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
      Hero (UTG): 100 BB
      MP: 40 BB (VPIP: 38.10, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
      CO: 103.4 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
      BTN: 142.8 BB (VPIP: 23.41, PFR: 18.41, 3Bet Preflop: 6.86, Hands: 457)
      SB: 117.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8:club: 8:spade:

      Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 8 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

      Flop: (16.4 BB, 2 players) T:club: 4:diamond: 4:heart:
      BB bets 8.2 BB, Hero calls 8.2 BB

      Turn: (32.8 BB, 2 players) 5:heart:
      BB bets 16.4 BB, Hero calls 16.4 BB

      River: (65.6 BB, 2 players) A:club:
      BB bets 33 BB, Hero calls 33 BB

      BB shows Q:heart: A:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Fours) (Pre 45%, Flop 26%, Turn 14%)
      Hero mucks 8:club: 8:spade: (Two Pair, Eights and Fours) (Pre 55%, Flop 74%, Turn 86%)
      BB wins 123 BB


      This is bothering me :D
      should i have folded earlier?
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      It could be that you're a little too loose based on that graph, but it's hard to tell without any stats.
      Maybe you could post some of your stats for us to analyze, even though they might not be too meaningful yet because you have only played about 9k hands so far.

      I'm not sure about that hand you posted...
      I guess your hand wasn't really strong enough to call on every street, but I'm not completely sure where exactly you should have folded. The turn might have been the right time for this, but then again, that card was pretty much a blank.
      Playing raise/fold on the flop would have been another possibility I suppose, but that's a bit of a risky move considering that we have hardly any stats on villain.
      That preflop call was debatable as well. It could be argued that you should have folded to the 3-bet, because villain's short stack doesn't give you the implied odds to play your pocket pair.

      I'd prefer it if someone who is a little more knowledgeable than me could analyze this hand, to be honest.
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by Eggie6
      sure, here's the graph to make it more clear :)


      iPoker - €0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 67.2 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
      Hero (UTG): 100 BB
      MP: 40 BB (VPIP: 38.10, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
      CO: 103.4 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
      BTN: 142.8 BB (VPIP: 23.41, PFR: 18.41, 3Bet Preflop: 6.86, Hands: 457)
      SB: 117.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8:club: 8:spade:

      Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 8 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

      Flop: (16.4 BB, 2 players) T:club: 4:diamond: 4:heart:
      BB bets 8.2 BB, Hero calls 8.2 BB

      Turn: (32.8 BB, 2 players) 5:heart:
      BB bets 16.4 BB, Hero calls 16.4 BB

      River: (65.6 BB, 2 players) A:club:
      BB bets 33 BB, Hero calls 33 BB

      BB shows Q:heart: A:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Fours) (Pre 45%, Flop 26%, Turn 14%)
      Hero mucks 8:club: 8:spade: (Two Pair, Eights and Fours) (Pre 55%, Flop 74%, Turn 86%)
      BB wins 123 BB


      This is bothering me :D
      should i have folded earlier?
      PF - I don't like the call here, you are OOP against a relative unknown player. Are we calling to set mine? If so, we don't have right odds to be profitable, and we have to fold to c/f every flop with a face card on it

      Flop - I think you either need to b/f here, or check-raise. The problem with just calling here is that every overcard is a scare card for us, so we are going to have to fold on about 20 - 23 cards (almost 50% of turn cards). If we just flat call, we have literally no idea where our hand stands against villain

      Turn - given we have called flop and it is blank, pretty nothing card so if we have decided our 8s are good...

      River - I think we have to fold here, so many hands are beating us, including PPs 99 - AA (which all could have 3bet PF), and any AT+ that would also have 3bet pre

      I think in this case villain has a range of:
      99+, KQ, AT+

      Not currently at a PC with equilab on it, but would be good to check your expected equity here

      Our expected result is either losing 33BB, or winning 98.6BB

      So we need to win x% of the time we call here to break even

      x*98.6 = (1-x)*33

      x=0.25

      Breakeven equity = 25%

      Given the only hand we beat in the range is KQ (maybe KJ is we extend it to that), I would guess that we have less than 25% equity. But if you check in equilab you can find out what equity we really have

      EDIT:

      Have tried to manually calc it, and I think we might actually have above breakeven equity from the range above (if we include KJ & KQ as 3-barrell bluffs, but that may be very optimistic)
      From the range given, villain has a range of 102 combos - we beat 32 of them.

      32/102 = 31.3%

      So in the best case scenario, we have slightly above breakeven equity.

      If we exclude KJ and assume villain only 3-barrels KQ as bluff and rest is value from our initial range, we now only beat 16 of 86 combos - equity of 18.6%

      I guess it all depends on your perception of villain, are they even capable of 3-barrel bluffs? Can we take exclude any bluff hands, but add to their range any PPs worse than ours?

      I guess you just need to play around with the possibilities to find out if you think it was a profitable call or not

      Personally I don't think it was
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Also I have seen you at the ipoker tables - I am BNabs88 currently!
    • Eggie6
      Eggie6
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2014 Posts: 10
      So.... every time someone posts here, i go on a upswing...
      i just had a massive upswing from 2 buy-ins to 10 buy-ins..... in 600 hands...
      and then i lose 4 buy-ins in one all-in....
      did i play wrong?
      iPoker - €0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 77.6 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
      UTG: 48.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
      MP: 267 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 80)
      Hero (CO): 517.2 BB
      BTN: 282.8 BB (VPIP: 15.53, PFR: 13.66, 3Bet Preflop: 7.55, Hands: 167)
      SB: 105.4 BB (VPIP: 36.00, PFR: 24.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 27)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: A:diamond:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

      Flop: (19.4 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: K:diamond: Q:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Turn: (19.4 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
      Hero bets 13.4 BB, BTN calls 13.4 BB

      River: (46.2 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:
      Hero bets 32.2 BB, BTN raises to 260.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 228.2 BB

      Hero mucks J:club: A:diamond: (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 56%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
      BTN shows K:spade: Q:spade: (Full House, Queens full of Kings) (Pre 44%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
      BTN wins 547 BB
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      BTN seems to be a tight player, I would have folded AJos to his 3-bet preflop.

      I also don't think that you had enough fold equity on the turn to justify that bet (I assume you were just trying to take down the pot, since everything else wouldn't really make much sense).

      River is an ugly spot. To be honest, I probably would have called as well, but deep stacked on a paired board, I think we really need to consider folding to such a big push.

      More importantly, I'd advise you to leave the table once you have 150-200BB and re-enter with a 100BB stack, unless you're very confident in your deep stacked play. That way, you can avoid sticky situations like this where you can lose a lot of money with second best hands.
      If your deep stacked play is good, situations like this might be profitable, but since you're currently underrolled for your limit, I'd advise you to play it safe for now and leave the table with a deep stack.

      Enjoy your new upswing! :f_wink:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      river is a super snap fold. paired board, 4-flush, reg villain, what do you think he's shipping over 2 stacks with? J T ? ohwait, we don't even beat that either...
    • mrkhaan
      mrkhaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2011 Posts: 263
      I agree with both Harrier88 and Tomaloc.
      The guy has position, a deep stack and is quite tight for SH. Your hand is not really good, you should fold PF.
      You could try a 4bet light to try to represent a monster but that's quite risky. In any case, you shouldn't call.