Discuss my AA hand got owned

    • rebelious
      rebelious
      Basic
      Joined: 14.05.2014 Posts: 2
      I was in BB position with AA, someone from HJ rised 3BB.

      It was folded all to me, I decided to call because he seems definitely folding to 3-bet from previous hands.

      flop came QT7 two-tone,
      I check, he rises 2/3 pot, I re-raise 4 X his bet, he re-raise 3X mine, I all-in, he called.

      he is a QTo and wined .

      The thought process during the flop raising re-raising is I put him on a flush draw hand, and he plays 25/15/2.5. So I was not too sure if he is on a set or not.

      That was it.
      Was I just running bad or did I made some mistake during the thinking /betting process? Any critical view is welcomed.
  • 14 replies
    • vuciitis
      vuciitis
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 1,314
      dont flat premiums OOP vs passive fish, u will need to be agressive to get that money in anyway, so at least take betting lead preflop as he will not build the pot for you postflop!
    • rebelious
      rebelious
      Basic
      Joined: 14.05.2014 Posts: 2
      My default play is to 3-bet as well.

      It was just a 'try new tricky style' sort of experiment that came to my mind that moment, and I paid badly for that.

      Let us assume that I 3-bet him, he called, I think the later processes won't be much different. I still would have been sucked out by him.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Hi, rebelious,
      Welcome to PokerStrategy.com !

      The problem here of course, is that there is no way to tell "what would have" happened.

      If you had 3Bet and he folded (again) you would possibly have been upset at that.

      Comfort yourself in knowing that 84 times out of 100 you will win this encounter.


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    84.49%  84.31%   0.18% { AA }
      MP3    15.51%  15.33%   0.18% { QTo }



      Murphy's law, however says that you will get the blinds those 84 times, whereas he gets your stack on his 15, but that's poker. :coolface:

      Not really, of course, -- that is just intended to convey the idea that the table above shows your equity in the pot -- it says nothing about the size of the pot.

      Incidentally, the table was generated with Equilab -- one of PokerStrategy.com's free tools.

      Check it out!

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi there rebelious,

      I see this every day. People try to slowplay (get tricky) with a monster hand preflop, but then can't lay it down later.

      There are three things I can think of straight away:
      #1 Slowplaying a micro stakes is a thing to do very very rarely and you really must know what you are doing.
      #2 Want action with your aces? Be careful for what you ask, you may just get it!
      #3 What's wrong with winning the blinds? That's free money every time!


      Mostly, just reraise and try to get the money in with the best hand. :f_cool:

      Regards,

      Mal.
    • jassurin
      jassurin
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2014 Posts: 24
      Hi Reb..Must say that I agree with the poster above. I think you should should have folded when he raised you again after your raise on the flop.Learning to fold premium hands is just vital for your game, yet most micro players never will..You can use that to your advantage in the right spots and land some big pots..

      cheers
    • omar6627
      omar6627
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2014 Posts: 3
      I think you played it right, he just got lucky and flopped two pair. I would've put him on AQ not two pair.
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      Originally posted by omar6627
      I think you played it right, he just got lucky and flopped two pair. I would've put him on AQ not two pair.
      I wouldn't put him on AQ here alot, we have 2 of the aces.
      I do agree with the rest, I dont think we should 3bet if he folds, flatting is okay.
      I don't know if he was aggressive or passive.
      Wouldn't 4x him, that's too big.

      If he is passive I would snapfold to his raise, otherwise get it in is fine. :)

      would really like to know how deep you were?
    • Daggystyle
      Daggystyle
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2014 Posts: 122
      Originally posted by rebelious
      I was in BB position with AA, someone from HJ rised 3BB.
      I think i would have 3-bet, but then again you will win SB+bet most of the time.
    • jonnyZ
      jonnyZ
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2010 Posts: 138
      When he 3bets you on the flop I tink you have to fold. Looking at his stats he dosnt seems to be that agressive, meaning if he had a draw on the flop he would probably just called your check rasie. When he reraise you again I think his range is leaning towards 2p and sets.

      If you want to get tricky with premiums try to do it in position next time. In position it will be easier for you to cotrol the pot size, ie pot controll if the board comes out scary and maximize value if not.
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      stake sizes is very important, if he has a 50bb's stack, I almost never 3bet if he folds a lot to 3bets.

      I don't know why we need to 3bet just because we're OOP, yes he has the advantage of having postion, but we do have the optimal card advantage.
      Almost anyone can play AA 100bb's deep profitable, position or not.

      It would be a lot easier if we know what stakes you play, how deep, if villain is god or bad posflop, aggressive or passive, fish or reg?
    • CreamyGoodness
      CreamyGoodness
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2010 Posts: 229
      Rebellious, what size game was this hand played at? NL10, NL25 etc? How deep were you? 50bb, 100bb, more?

      3betting is default in this spot for me in every (micro) game . If you resteal a respectable range from the BB (as I do, and you have implied you have been doing) then raising AA is a no brainer. If you flat alot from the BB then a flat call is ok.

      Problem is, if you do flat with these hands pre, you usually have to keep the pot small post flop when you only have a pair, and you absolutely have to be skilled at letting the hands go when your beat postflop. This is very difficult to do, as you have just learned. The way to avoid this is to have a low SPR on the flop, which is achieved by raising preflop.

      To be honest though, I feel that mixing up your play in these spots is a waste of time and money in the micros, and pushing your good hands hard is the best strategy.

      As you played it, I think raising the flop is questionable, and very out of synch with your preflop action (flat calling). Reraising all in is pretty much giving money away. True, he might call with KQ, or a big draw like KJs (OESD + FD) but that's about the worst hand a nitty player will show you.
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      The perennial AA conundrum.....

      Not sure which great player it was, might have been Doyle Brunson, who said "you are gonna win a lot of small pots with AA and lose a few big ones...."

      And he definitely said in his book that he preferred to play AK, because it is so much easier to fold!

      AA is a great hand but when you go to showdown the laws of averages imply that most players won't have an ace, so they are in the hand with a better holding than a pair like sneaky trips or belly-buster straights or in this case 2 pair.

      Live and learn :-)

      Jass
    • RakeVictim
      RakeVictim
      Basic
      Joined: 27.03.2014 Posts: 199
      Originally posted by jass1960
      The perennial AA conundrum.....

      Not sure which great player it was, might have been Doyle Brunson, who said "you are gonna win a lot of small pots with AA and lose a few big ones...."

      And he definitely said in his book that he preferred to play AK, because it is so much easier to fold!

      AA is a great hand but when you go to showdown the laws of averages imply that most players won't have an ace, so they are in the hand with a better holding than a pair like sneaky trips or belly-buster straights or in this case 2 pair.

      Live and learn :-)

      Jass
      So much fail in that comment :D
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Originally posted by RakeVictim
      Originally posted by jass1960
      The perennial AA conundrum.....

      Not sure which great player it was, might have been Doyle Brunson, who said "you are gonna win a lot of small pots with AA and lose a few big ones...."

      And he definitely said in his book that he preferred to play AK, because it is so much easier to fold!

      AA is a great hand but when you go to showdown the laws of averages imply that most players won't have an ace, so they are in the hand with a better holding than a pair like sneaky trips or belly-buster straights or in this case 2 pair.

      Live and learn :-)

      Jass
      So much fail in that comment :D
      One of the most amazing things I gleaned from watching the SCOOP-M and -H games was not how aggressively they played, but how many times people folded.

      I suspect that what separates the good from the great is not how they play their great hands, nor even how they play their terrible hands.

      What makes a player great is how they can play their medium hands.
      A single overpair is a medium hand.

      Multi-way AA becomes tough to play.
      You may be ahead, but there is no way to tell, and if you're behind you have two outs -- usually -- sometimes more if there are straights or flushes available to you, but those are usually back-door draws.

      Conventional wisdom is to "get it in when you're ahead". But if poker is a game of skill, once you get it in, you give up any skill advantage you might have, and now rely solely on the cards.

      "When the chips are in the middle, the skill is out the window"

      Mind you, knowing WHEN to get the chips in the middle is itself a skill.
      Knowing when to fold, and save your remaining chips for a better opportunity is also a skill. Great players have it.

      I don't.

      --VS