Net Winnings / EV

    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26


      So, i played around 25K hands, and i've been making 4.18 bb/100 wich is almost nothing at NL2 where i play...

      The thing is, lately i have been either getting losing sessions or even sessions, and in my EV line of the graph it shows dat according to my decisions, i wont last even for long, since my EV graph is negative...

      Am i reading it right ? or am i missing something ?
  • 14 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      ev line only counts for situations where both players are all-in.
      that said, yeah, while it's not the most reliable indicator of skill it's still better than the green line... so having it on the negative is bad and you should work on your game :f_biggrin:
    • spinek
      spinek
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 5,594
      Most of the players show graphs where the EV line is over the green line.

      It seems that you underestimate your opponent's range an go all-in with hands that have too low equity. You just got lucky a few times on turn and river and won the pot.

      But EV line can be tricky. Sometimes for a longer period of time you just run into the top of someone's range and EV line drops but it doesn't mean that your decisions were wrong.

      Still, you should probably work on your hand reading skills. There is a whole section explaining this topic on the strategy page.
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      I am blind to everyone else's range, i've read 100 articles on it, and still am a dumb f*** when it comes to placing my oponents into a range.

      Most of the times i just go with theyr Aggression factor number and decide either to believe or not.
      I've won a huge amount of pots by calling with Ace High on players with AF of 12...
      (i also take into account the VPIP/PFR, if the numbers are like 35/35 i just assume he is a maniac with balls of steel ! )

      But yeah, i see that my assumptions were right and i significantly need to improve my game.

      Thanks for the answers ! :f_biggrin:
    • yYPianhaYy
      yYPianhaYy
      Basic
      Joined: 26.11.2013 Posts: 63
      Hey AnaJorge,

      its good that you already use pokertracker to spot your leaks, and you already found one. you probably play a too wide range overall which might work out when you are more experienced and up against deeper thinking players, but since you're just playing NL2 i would recommend you to tighten up your starting-hand-range significantly.

      maybe you might even try other formats than 9-man cash-game, for example 6-max is played a bit more aggressive or you can have a look into SnGs (Turbo's/ Hypers since the micro-stakes are easy to learn there (and you don't have to stay nitty all the time, which is not everybodies style :) )).

      Greetings
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      I played SNG's and MTTs for some time, i got a decent ROI but i don't like having breaks of only 5 min every hour.
      After playing for like 2 hours i rather have a 30 min break to clear my head...
      That's why i moved to Hyper turbo's, there i got like a 4 % ROI, but the variance was so big that my personality can't handle it...
      Then i moved to cash games, where i really like, but my strategy does not seem to work here...

      Today i tried Deeps stacks with antes, .01/.02, 0.1 antes, it seemed more like me, and it values a lot more the connector and set mining then in 100BB stacks...

      The Sit and Wait nits are less profitable here aswell, and theyr raises Pre-flop are a lot easier to pay when u know they have almost certanly AA KK QQ or AK !
      In 100BB's i just cant fold some hands pre-flop even tho i know i am super behind at that point !
      ^^

      I do use Holdem Manager, and i take like a daily hour or two, just to analyze my leaks and where im making money (im losing A LOT of money in the cutt-off and dunno why and the most profitable place for me is the Small blind/Button ! dunno how im making so much in small blind tho, its weird ! ^^ )

      BTW, I created a thread about a group of discussion of strategy, if u'd like to come and share some thoughts while playing would be great ! ^^
      (cant afford a coach atm... :( )
      Poker Group Training Sessions
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      Post your stats here and I can try to help you :)
      also post a graph with nonshowdown and showdown winnings.

      Try to fit in as many stats as possible.

      If that's not helping you, I could probably do a sweat session with you.
      I know how expensive coaching is and I know how badly I wanted it in the beginning. :s_cool:
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      My stats as Follows:
      VPIP / PFR / Post flop agression factor / tot 3 bet / tot 4 bet




      Showdown/Non Showdown winnings:





      I can add more stats if necessary, this is not the computer i usually play, so HUD is not configured, i just imported the hands ! :f_cry:


      EDIT: I would totally love that session ! would be like legen.... dary ! :f_biggrin:
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      I can start to say that you are to aggressive. you only want to valuebet at micros.
      and you call to much preflop. you should find mre spots to fold pre and/or 3bet.

      I guess you 3bet about JJ+, AT+, KQs and I think its fine, you could probably 3bet 99+ for value in later pos, as you will have position and can check it down and bluff catch on boards you dont like.

      Try to check down hands with showdown value and fold everthing you don't feel comfortable to play OOP.

      Post your position stats also with Vpip, PFR, 3bet, foldto3bet. :)

      The best advice I can give you now is, play ONLY hands you are comfortable to play and value bet HARD untill you get played back. try to never bluff, there is no shame in giving up a hand :)

      GL :s_cool:
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      I don't really have a standard table for 3betting, i usually do it depending on the raiser, vs someone with higher PFR i usually 3bet more loose, and i gradually get tighter depending on the raise position according to the raiser positional awareness, i dont even 3bet in the button vs a cutoff raise from a PFR <10, actually, against those players i dont ever 3bet, cause, they either got the AA/KK or they gonna fold to me, so if i do have those combinations i just flat and wait them to come on me at the flop so i can get more value off those hands...

      I 3bet anything if it the fold to 3bet/PFR are high enough, and they raise from late positions for example,

      my 3bet winnings:



      dunno how to post hands, or i would post an example !
      i do believe this would be considered high in another levels, but here i believe its working and a big part of my winnings...


      Here are my position status and this will look super weird:



      Fire away ! ^^


      EDIT: OK, **** defending the big blind ! i know where is my money going into ! -.-
      although, im also losing money in the button... and dont know why... :f_cry:
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      What I can see is,
      - that you are way to aggressive, you have a very low "won money at showdown (W$SD%)", this stat should at least be on 52+ I think.
      - You call down to much.
      - You 3bet is too high in BB for NL2, you should almost only 3bet value hands in the blinds.
      - you call too much in SB, Try to played more fold or 3bet from the blinds, you dont get exploited at these stakes, the players who can exploit has probably already moved away from NL2 :)


      How do you play your low/mid pocketpairs?

      A good winrate from the blinds are,
      SB: -15bb/100
      BB: -30bb/100

      everything over that is bad. you dont need too defend so wide from the blinds, it's NL2.

      One weird thing is that when I count it together your stats is, 21/15/6 :P
      I'm a bit confused, this is 6max stats you gave me, but in the other thread you wrote:

      I wanted a study group for Holdem, full ring and at micro limits, i have a really small bankroll.


      Anyway, try to play as much ABC poker as possible, stop being so aggressive, find more folds postflop. Don't do any tricky stuff or slowplay and you will soon move up in higher stakes.

      If you hit TPTK+ go bet/bet/bet, until you get raised, then consider if your hand is good enough :)
      something to keep in mind, tight is right, but tighter is righter!!

      If you have any questions don't be afraid to ask, there is NO dumb questions!!

      My english isn't awesome, sometimes it can be a bit fuzzy, so please correct me if I spell something wrong :heart:

      GL at the tables! :s_cool:
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      Ok, tons of points there, ima try to follow those points, already took notes to my little book ! ^^


      And the stats i gave u are 2NL FR, the thing is, the first 15K hands i played more of a LAG style, if i was IP i would call/raise almost any 2, and then play them post flop...
      it kinda was working, but sometimes they would just call with bottom pair or a medium pocket pair and that tilts me super easily... so i moved on to a tighter way to get money off them.... not working for me ! :f_cry:
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      Originally posted by AnaJorge
      Ok, tons of points there, ima try to follow those points, already took notes to my little book ! ^^


      And the stats i gave u are 2NL FR, the thing is, the first 15K hands i played more of a LAG style, if i was IP i would call/raise almost any 2, and then play them post flop...
      it kinda was working, but sometimes they would just call with bottom pair or a medium pocket pair and that tilts me super easily... so i moved on to a tighter way to get money off them.... not working for me ! :f_cry:
      Okay, do it like this,
      1.pick a nitty range to play from every postion, also pick a range you always 3bet no mather what almost.
      2.Try to call less and fold more often pre.
      3.Stick to this range and fold everything else, also fold everything that is "close" call or 3bet.

      now, play as much as you can without spewing, set some alarm or something every 10-20min to remind you not to spew! :)
      when you feel that you're really comfortable playing all the hands in your range from every position, then add some more hands to every range, maybe 1 hand utg, 2 more in MP and CO, 4 more on the button :)

      It will take a while, but it's effective!

      Btw, start out VERY nitty! If you take to many hands into your range in the begining, you will probably have to much to think about, so make it easy!
      GL and keep asking questions like there wasn't a tomorrow


      Add me as friend and I can give you me skype. It will be alot easier!
    • AnaJorge
      AnaJorge
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 26
      @kevsaf I've added u as a friend, how can i send u my skype ? :f_confused:
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      I've send you mine. look under home/community