Caution: Winner.com is running a scammy business model

    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      Be careful with the guys at winner.com. They offer and advertise many attractive bonuses, including no deposit bonuses. But all these are just means to get you deposit and then try to scam your money.

      At my case, I read about their 30 eur sign-up bonus on PS. They indeed gave me 30 EUR upon my sign-up at their casino site. I am not an amateur, so I read their terms and conditions carefully regarding this bonus, yet I still get scammed.

      I met all wagering requirements. According to their Terms and Conditions, I can claim up to 200 EUR from this bonus winnings and I have to deposit 50 EUR first to claim that winnings. This is the trick. I made a deposit of 50 EUR and the online support manually claim the 200 EUR winning for me. He told me I could withdraw 250 EUR now. But I didn't want to withdraw at that time, I wanted to play in their poker room, so I ask him if it's ok to transfer my 250 eur to poker. He confirmed it is ok and then I transfer 256 eur to my poker balance (the 6 eur was converted from my loyalty points).

      At this point, 256 EUR is mine and I can do whatever I want.

      I used my 256 eur to play poker and also place bets on their sport book site. I managed to build my bankroll to over 600 EUR, mainly by winning bets. But after one night, when I waked up I found out that I couldn't log-in my poker account. The log-in process just got stuck at loading tables icon. When I contacted the live support, they told me that there was no technical issue on their side and suggested me to log-in again tomorrw. At this point I felt something strange and I thought they intended to keep me away from poker so that I could stick to their sport book and casino until I could lose all my funds.

      And I am right. Now when I log-in my sportbook account, I realize that all my funds were removed, only 250 EUR left. I contacted live support and they started rolling the balls, they forward me from one to another, and finally they told me that they didn't know anything and ignored me.

      This is totally a scam business. Be aware with them. All bonuses they offer is just to lure you to deposit sothat they can scam you if you win.
  • 14 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Hey thunderbird56,

      Obviously this is not pleasant to read.

      I am not in a position to help you personally, but I suggest that you contact our customer support and see if there is anything that we can do.

      I'm not sure if it will be possible but anything is worth a try, right?


      Best regards,
      Gary
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      After I tried talking with their support, they finally gave me this answer:

      "We would like to inform you that we have cut your excess winnings from the sign up bonus and we have retained €250 (max winnings of 200 + deposit 50) on your account which is the allowed withdrawable amount. "

      Totally scam!
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Hey thunderbird56,

      I'm very sorry to hear about your situation.

      Could you please tell what exactly this means?

      "We would like to inform you that we have cut your excess winnings from the sign up bonus and we have retained €250 (max winnings of 200 + deposit 50) on your account which is the allowed withdrawable amount. "
      Does this mean you had €600 in your account, and they took away €350 without any notice? What exactly do they mean with excess winnings in this case?

      One thing you should note is that any bonus funds you get on Winner Casino can never be withdrawn. They can only be used for wagering purposes. Therefore, any bonus funds you received will automatically be deducted when you try to make a withdrawal.

      In addition, you need to meet the minimum wagering requirements before making a withdrawal. If you don't do this, your bonuses as well as your winnings will be void.

      You can have a look at the Terms & Conditions where this is stated here: http://casino.winner.com/bonus-terms

      It feels to me like either of these things happened to you. If you are absolutely sure that neither of these apply, just let us know. We'll then of course see what we can do to get this sorted out for you. In that case, any details you can think of could be useful for us, such as the date you made your deposit, when you played, etc.

      Regards,
      Tino
    • graz187
      graz187
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 195
      What? Why give bonuses if you cant withdraw them? Oh yea to bait you to deposit. Why not give everyone a million dollar bonus then tell them to go fuck themselves when they try to withdraw.
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      Hi TinoLaan,

      You can read my first post carefully if you want to understand the case fully. I bet you didn't, that's why you posted that.

      Regarding the TOS, I have been dealing with online poker for about ten years so I am so familiar with it.

      I will try to sum up things again so you can get the right point:

      - I got a no deposit bonus of 30 EUR at winner casino site. Of course there are wagering requirements. You have to wager at least 1,500 EUR and the maximum amount of winnings to be withdrawn is 200 EUR (the bonus amount itself is not redeemable as you said). I played with it and met all the requirements. Online support confirmed this and requested me to make a deposit of 50 EUR to claim the winning of 200 EUR. After that I would have 250 EUR to withdraw

      - After I deposited, online support told me to withdraw 250 EUR. But I didn't want to withdraw and asked him that if I could transfer my 250 EUR to poker balance to play. He confirmed it was ok.

      - So at this point, you can see that the casino bonus had been cleared and closed. 250 EUR is mine and I can do anything with it, right?

      - Then I used my 250 EUR to play poker and bet tennis. I managed to win and my bankroll grew to over 600 EUR.

      - Today Winner took away nearly 400 EUR from my balance without any notice. Just 250 EUR left.

      Additionally, they also made something on my poker account before so that I always got stuck at loading balance when I log in. I think you understand why they did this. They want me to play with their casino and betting only so there is great chance I would lose all.

      I specially hate companies running on scam business model!
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Hi again,

      Thanks for your detailed reply.

      Of course it's very sad to see what happened to you. However, I'm afraid that there's not a whole lot we can do in this case. Have a look again at the bonus Terms & Conditions I linked you to earlier under the heading "Free Sign up (No Deposit) & Special Trial Bonuses".

      Especially clauses 6 and 7 are important here. As you can see, if you made a deposit of €50, you can only make a withdrawal of that amount in addition to a maximum of €200 in winnings, which adds up to €250 (clause 6). Any other winnings will be removed from your account (clause 7).

      As much as I hate to say it, there's nothing we can do in this case. This is clearly what's stated in their Terms & Conditions, which we have absolutely no influence on. The bottom line here is that they most likely don't want to give players who start with a free bankroll to be able to cash out too much money essentially for free.

      In your case, for example, you made €200 profit from their money without investing anything yourself. That's great for you, but not so much for them, sadly.

      Whether you use this money on a different part of Winner (for example their poker room) or not is completely irrelevant. It's still the €30 no deposit bonus from the casino, so the bonus terms still apply regardless of where you play with it.

      My apologies for this. I wish there was more we could do for you in this case :(

      Regarding your account getting stuck at loading your balance, this could simply be a small technical error as well. I'd recommend you contact Winner support to get that sorted out. Even a fresh installation could do the trick in that case sometimes.

      Any other questions or comments, just ask.

      Regards,
      Tino
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      Hi TinoLaan,

      Thank you for your attention.

      About the money winner took away, I have already considered it as dead and not expecting to get back. I just submitted a withdrawal request of 250 EUR and let's see what is next. Anyways, I am not expecting much from these scam guys.

      Regarding being unable to log in the poker platform, I am sure this is action of winner. I have obvious evidences to come to this conclusion. After performing basic things such as re-installing, deleting cache, updating IE, flash..etc.., I went to further investigation. First, I tried on multiple PCs, even with diffident OS (from Win 8, Win 7 to Win XP) and I still couldn't log in. Then I try creating a test account on the same client, same PC, and it can log in smoothly. So it is obvious that they made something on my specific account to prevent me from logging.

      Regarding the support, I contacted them multiple times, in fact this is the first thing I do whenever problems occur, and every time they insisted that there was no technical problem as well as nothing wrong with my account.

      In last, I can confirm now Winner is not trusted brand, even a scam one, and we should stay away from the company of this kind. I myself of course will never come back. I know PS is owned by Playtech and affiliated with Winner, then I also not expecting they can stand on my side.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      This is very very scummy of them imo.
    • graz187
      graz187
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 195
      [edited], they are advertising this shit and not telling anything about the fact you cant withdraw winnings only lose. Some moderator comes on and say we are sorry there is nothing we can do. Yes there is, right next to the banner advertising casino money there should be big letters saying you can't actually withdraw it. I would never refer anyone to this site again and I for one am done with it

      /please don't use offensive language - Marta
    • Marta
      Marta
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 06.12.2010 Posts: 9,515
      Hey guys,

      your frustration is understandable, sorry to hear that your experience with Winner Poker was not great.

      Sometimes the T&Cs might not be completely clear, some clauses might be overlooked or misinterpreted.

      We recommend to contact the poker room support at an early stage of being an active player and ask questions related to the possible withdrawal, special bonus conditions, etc.
      You can also post them in our forum, we will try to help.

      thunderbird56, did you manage to withdraw the 250 EUR?
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      Originally posted by Marta

      thunderbird56, did you manage to withdraw the 250 EUR?
      Not yet. It has been 6 days, although I sent tons of docs as they requested. They are just making all kind of difficulties to not give me the money as I've expected before
    • ZeroDegrees
      ZeroDegrees
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 743
      Thanks for the warning! This is not the first trash report I've heard about winner.com. Let's never go to these kind of sites, spread the word!

      I think the support should have told you that you could never win after you got 250 euro. And that you should withdraw and then redeposit. They would have one more customer then in you, and lots and lots more in the ones who thought about playing there (me included) but hears these kind of reports.

      Gratz to your win, forget them and find more decent sites! GL!

      What do you think of sites who closes you out from playing certain games? Block your account from logging in (clearly proved)? A support that disrespects you??? Do you love these companies? Do you feel you can trust them with even a cookie?
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      UPDATES:

      Neither payment nor update received, and it's been almost 1 week by today. As I already predicted, they are just trying not to pay me, even steal my deposit. When I chatted with online support some mins ago, they just asked for another set of documents again, like many cases I have read on AskGamblers. Although all my docs I sent are clear and have nothing wrong with them ((same docs all other sites satisfied with), Winner keeps wanting more docs. I found out this is a typical thing they do to delay withdrawals reading others' complaints.
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,182
      Final update:

      I am tired of waiting and getting asked for documents again and again. I know whatever I send they would be never satisfied since their only purpose isn't to verify my account but to not have to pay out my winnings. Therefore, I decided to send them an official warning email letting them know that I am not only a player but also a webmaster and will do SEO activities to spread this scam thing over the net. After that, I was refunded my deposit of 50 EUR to my Skrill account immediately.

      It is obvious that the guys at Winner.com are nothing more than scammers. First, they took away 400 EUR from my balance. Then, they created all kind of difficulties to prevent my cash out. When there was no way, they was forced to refund my deposit, and kept all the winnings.

      Do not touch these guys unless you want to get robbed. There are tons of good sites out there.