PT4 delayed Cbet stats

  • 18 replies
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Originally posted by WillyD
      Hey guys,

      Just wanted to know where is the delayed Cbet stat and fold to delayed Cbet stat in PT4.

      Thanks for your help
      https://www.pokertracker.com/custom/stats

      Search for "Delay"

      This is a custom stat because this stat is used less frequently than you (or I) would assume it would be. The fewer stats installed, the faster the performance of PT4, so we chose to keep this as a custom stat instead.
    • WillyD
      WillyD
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 242
      Thanks a lot, yes it will be very useful no doubt about that
    • WillyD
      WillyD
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 242
      having trouble inserting it in PT4 though...

      how is that done?

      EDIT: got it nvm
    • NutzAreOk
      NutzAreOk
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2011 Posts: 7,409
      Is it possible to set delay cbet stat to tournament hud?
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Yes, this stat would be fundamentally the same in both tournaments and cash games - however it is not as useful in tournaments due to sample size issues.
    • NutzAreOk
      NutzAreOk
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2011 Posts: 7,409
      Originally posted by PokerTracker
      Yes, this stat would be fundamentally the same in both tournaments and cash games - however it is not as useful in tournaments due to sample size issues.
      So how I can add it then to my tournament hud? I have download the stat from warehouse but it`s not on statistics when I have tournament hud open on hud profiles. If I take cash hud open it will appear to statistics.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Originally posted by NutzAreOk
      Originally posted by PokerTracker
      Yes, this stat would be fundamentally the same in both tournaments and cash games - however it is not as useful in tournaments due to sample size issues.
      So how I can add it then to my tournament hud? I have download the stat from warehouse but it`s not on statistics when I have tournament hud open on hud profiles. If I take cash hud open it will appear to statistics.

      You must convert the cash game stat to a tournament stat, you can accomplish this by selecting Configure > Statistics. Select the cash game stat, then select Options > Convert. Save & then click OK. This stat will not become available to be added in any tournament report, graph or HUD.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      I am not very happy about how custom stats are done in pt4. I use river bluff frequency, and it really slowdowns performance, just one stat.
    • NutzAreOk
      NutzAreOk
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2011 Posts: 7,409
      Originally posted by PokerTracker
      Originally posted by NutzAreOk
      Originally posted by PokerTracker
      Yes, this stat would be fundamentally the same in both tournaments and cash games - however it is not as useful in tournaments due to sample size issues.
      So how I can add it then to my tournament hud? I have download the stat from warehouse but it`s not on statistics when I have tournament hud open on hud profiles. If I take cash hud open it will appear to statistics.

      You must convert the cash game stat to a tournament stat, you can accomplish this by selecting Configure > Statistics. Select the cash game stat, then select Options > Convert. Save & then click OK. This stat will not become available to be added in any tournament report, graph or HUD.
      Thank you! :f_thumbsup:
    • NutzAreOk
      NutzAreOk
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2011 Posts: 7,409
      Btw. Is this stat for non 3bet pots or 3bet pots too? I couldn`t find any information about that.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Originally posted by NutzAreOk
      Btw. Is this stat for non 3bet pots or 3bet pots too? I couldn`t find any information about that.
      You can customise the stat to make it respect delayed turn Cbets in 3 Bet Pots and non-3Bet Pots; but you would have to edit the SQL expression yourself. Our staff would be able to guide you in our official support forums, we do not provide SQL expression coding help anywhere else due to the nature of the highly complex code that is required.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      test
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      You can customise the stat to make it respect delayed turn Cbets in 3 Bet Pots and non-3Bet Pots; but you would have to edit the SQL expression yourself. Our staff would be able to guide you in our official support forums, we do not provide SQL expression coding help anywhere else due to the nature of the highly complex code that is required.
      Considering that SQL queries are complex, and non programmer users cant learn it easily, why dont you make Wizard for creating SQL queries, similarly as it is done in Visual Studio? Then all users would be able to create queries. Maybe not super complex, but it would make things much simpler. I am surprised that you didnt do such thing.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Originally posted by mlatasrb
      You can customise the stat to make it respect delayed turn Cbets in 3 Bet Pots and non-3Bet Pots; but you would have to edit the SQL expression yourself. Our staff would be able to guide you in our official support forums, we do not provide SQL expression coding help anywhere else due to the nature of the highly complex code that is required.
      Considering that SQL queries are complex, and non programmer users cant learn it easily, why dont you make Wizard for creating SQL queries, similarly as it is done in Visual Studio? Then all users would be able to create queries. Maybe not super complex, but it would make things much simpler. I am surprised that you didnt do such thing.
      Most custom stats are developed by our own staff for our users, if the stat is expected to be very popular we will perform that service. For rarer needs, the user can get guidance - but they must complete the task. Microsoft is the developer of Visual Studio, their wizards perform the same function as our lists of columns, functions, variables, and operators when you click the Insert link. Also we provide a Validate link to verify the code. But the big difference between Visual Studio and PokerTracker 4 is revenue.... Microsoft can afford to toss many many millions at development, Visual Studio is a very big application with a tremendous upside for Microsoft that is potentially in the Billions when developers use this tool. PokerTracker 4 however has a much smaller user base, and even fewer users who need to customise stats making this a lower priority for us since there are so many other features than need our attention first.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      Microsoft is the developer of Visual Studio, their wizards perform the same function as our lists of columns, functions, variables, and operators when you click the Insert link. Also we provide a Validate link to verify the code.
      Yes I know this, I used it at pt4. For example, if I use custom expressions, I can use validate, but I cant see which expressions are possible nor what is the syntax for using expressions (or I didnt see this options?)

      I understand that due to low number of user needing queries, you dont want to put so much effort, makes sense. I just was seeing hm2 which my friend uses, and it looks that they have many more custom stats built in comparing to pt4, and much easier to search them, also easier to create own stats using something like wizard. What I dont like with hm2, that it is just too complex, too many features, and pt4 is simpler to use (At least for me). So I still use pt4 because I started using it and got used to it.

      Do you have built in vs hero stats, preflop and postflop? Or some custom stats? was searching it, couldnt find it. that is super important stat in poker, I dont understand why pt4 doesnt have it, but has so many other stats which are not so much relevant
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      I just was seeing hm2 which my friend uses, and it looks that they have many more custom stats built in comparing to pt4, and much easier to search them, also easier to create own stats using something like wizard.
      You might be confusing Custom Stats with NoteCaddy. Our parent company owns both the PokerTracker and Holdem Manager brands, but the two products are developed separately with their own unique teams. Only PokerTracker 4 has a custom statistics solution, stats are a measurement of times an action occurred divided by the opportunity to take that action. Holdem Manager does not have a formal custom stats feature, instead it includes the option to purchase the add-on NoteCaddy which can mimic the features of a custom stat in some ways - but it is not exactly the same. PokerTracker 4 include NoteTracker, which is available at no extra cost. NoteTracker allows you to use the filters to create custom notes that track observations where there was no way to track opportunities for that observation to occur - this is very similar to NoteCaddy's functionality, it uses PokerTracker 4's built in filters to accomplish this goal and it is very easy to build custom autonotes in NoteTracker.

      Do you have built in vs hero stats, preflop and postflop? Or some custom stats? was searching it, couldnt find it. that is super important stat in poker, I dont understand why pt4 doesnt have it, but has so many other stats which are not so much relevant
      vshero is not as relevant as you may think, see this outstanding article for a mathematical explanation why: https://www.pokertracker.com/blog/2012/08/answering-the-question-does-this-player-alter-his-play-against-me. There are third party custom stats which include vs hero stats for those who refuse to believe the mathematics behind vs hero - we still provide this option as an add on even though mathematics have proven vs hero to be not very useful. To see examples, search for HERO in the custom stat download warehouse.

      We have an extensive selection of custom stats available for you here: https://www.pokertracker.com/custom/stats
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      PokerTracker 4 include NoteTracker, which is available at no extra cost. NoteTracker allows you to use the filters to create custom notes that track observations where there was no way to track opportunities for that observation to occur -

      Notes look interesting, but I rarely find it usefull (I use only pt4 default notes). Only usefull notes I use is what hands did player 4bet, 3bet, call 3bet, call 4bet.

      IS there something like, hands that player raised postflop so that we can conclude more about his range? Would also be nice, overbet hands. Is there some nice tutorial about this?
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      Let's say our typical player played a session with a good, thinking, analytical and aggressive opponent whom we'll call Villain sitting immediately on his left. Our typical player played 300 hands at this table with Villain on his left and was 3Bet by Villain several times over the course of this session, say 7 times out of 50 opportunities, leaving our typical player seeing a versus hero 3Bet of 14%. A couple of weeks later, our typical player is sitting across the table from Villain and our typical player opens the pot in middle position. Villain, in the small blind, makes a 3Bet. If our typical player sees a versus hero 3Bet of 14% and a regular 3Bet of 6% he may presume that he could be 3Bet light here - but he has no evidence of that fact
      I read article which you provided. It is ok, I agree. I already knew those facts, how position is important and how sample size is important. However, I think there are spots where vs hero stats are very usefull. E.g. if hero plays e.g. NL5, where most of villians 3bet very tight, then he folds e.g. 90% vs 3bets because it is mostly QQ+, AK. But, there are some rare regs who are seeing that hero folds 90% vs 3bet, and 3bet very light vs hero (thinking that if hero folds so much in average he will also fold so much vs this agressive villian). So, if we look at villians vs hero 3bet stat, and this stat shows e.g. 15 % over all positions (but vs all villians in average only 6%), and if I am in late position, I will conclude that his 3bet stat is around 15% really (probably more than 15%). But if I am playing MP then I will conclude it is likely around 7%, probably still bluff heavy because hero overfolds vs 3bet and villian is agro

      Now most important usage of vs hero stat, what if that guy brutally exploits hero, e.g. his 3bet stat is 30%. That is already very valueable and likely he is bluff heavy vs most positions (still I would say 10% vs MP and 40% vs BU). What is we have very small sample, e.g. only 10 hands vs hero 3bet stat, but he 3bets 90% vs hero in that 10 samples. I would say it is super likely that he is very bluff heavy vs hero when 3betting even though sample is small. What if sample is 3, and 100% 3bet vs hero? still I will consider him bluff heavy. Understand what I mean? So I would use it only for extreme low or high stats.