Red Line

    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      Hi All

      I read a lot about the red & blue line. My lines always go in opposite directions. Can anyone explain if it is important to focus on this and why. I play NL25 and play pretty tight aggressive and take my 'good hands' to showdown as much as possible, for obvious reasons. I don't bluff very often and semi bluff quite often especially in position.

      I have included a pic of the graph since I started at pokerstars. Can anyone read anything into this?

      Thanks

  • 16 replies
    • kevsaf
      kevsaf
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 639
      This may help you :) GL

      The red line myth
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      Originally posted by kevsaf
      This may help you :) GL

      The red line myth
      This^^

      They go in opposite directions because winning w/o showdown means your showdown winnings are less, and vice versa.

      I have no idea what your hand selection is, so it is tough to give meaningful advice.

      But try this...
      Filter your graph & stats to remove blinds. How does it look now?

      Check out each position.

      If you ALWAYS fold your blinds, you lose 100 BB/100 in the big blind, and 50 BB/100 in the small blind, so anything not that bad is good.

      If you're using HM2, then there is a report by position that is quite instructive.

      So:
      Things to help the red line:
        steal more from BTN and sm blind (be careful not to overdo it)
        defend your blinds more, esp vs sm blind steals.

      But tread carefully -- your green line is healthy and in the end THAT is the line to focus on, however you do it.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      Hi Vorpal

      Thanks. Here is my graph minus the blinds. I don't know what this means though? It looks like I am losing most of my money via the blinds. Is this normal?

      Thanks
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      Hi, glenlivet83
      Yes, quite normal.

      However it could be that you are defending too tightly.

      Perhaps reading some articles, or watching some videos on blind defence might help.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey glenlivet83

      The blinds are the only positions I'm losing in. It's perfectly normal that your graph without blinds is going straight up. The first time I checked that out I was surprised as well.

      Usually I'd say don't worry to much about the red line. Just make sure that your line is not going straight down. In the lowest limits this isn't a problem but from nl50 up people are going to notice it and going to exploit it. Like vorpal said check out some blind defends vids/articles and look for some free spots where you can pick up some free money. This will help raise that red line a lot!

      If you have any more questions, just shoot!

      Regards

      RasTweet
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F

      If you ALWAYS fold your blinds, you lose 100 BB/100 in the big blind, and 50 BB/100 in the small blind, so anything not that bad is good.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
      This cant be right lol, if u folded 100 hands in a row you'd only lose 11 big blinds and 11 small blinds, that's about 16 big blinds folding every hand from all position for 100 hands in a row, that's the max u can lose by folding every hand you ever get.

      I guess you mean u'd lose 100bb/100 hands in the big blind
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Originally posted by Vip3rNZ
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F

      If you ALWAYS fold your blinds, you lose 100 BB/100 in the big blind, and 50 BB/100 in the small blind, so anything not that bad is good.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
      This cant be right lol, if u folded 100 hands in a row you'd only lose 11 big blinds and 11 small blinds, that's about 16 big blinds folding every hand from all position for 100 hands in a row, that's the max u can lose by folding every hand you ever get.

      I guess you mean u'd lose 100bb/100 hands in the big blind
      Yep, that's exactly what Vorpal meant :)
    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      Thanks for the responses. Been looking at a few bits and peices on stealing blinds etc. I guess for me it seems I need to open up my range especially in steal positions and the blinds as I only have a pfr of 14. I guess I'm not that confident post flop and find it easier to play in position with premium hands. No real difficult decisions and it works for me but only 2bb/100. Are there any coaching groups to help improve my game post flop?

      My bankroll is upto $700 and I want to move to NL 50 when I have 25 buy ins and the games seem a bit more solid at these stakes and I think I would be exploited.

      Any advice for preparing for this?

      Thanks
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      Originally posted by glenlivet83
      Thanks for the responses. Been looking at a few bits and peices on stealing blinds etc. I guess for me it seems I need to open up my range especially in steal positions and the blinds as I only have a pfr of 14. I guess I'm not that confident post flop and find it easier to play in position with premium hands. No real difficult decisions and it works for me but only 2bb/100. Are there any coaching groups to help improve my game post flop?

      My bankroll is upto $700 and I want to move to NL 50 when I have 25 buy ins and the games seem a bit more solid at these stakes and I think I would be exploited.

      Any advice for preparing for this?

      Thanks
      Hi, glenlivet83,
      You're already on the track I would have recommended:
        Steal more blinds
        Possibly defend more blinds.
        Gain post-flop skillz -- you'll need 'em if you're entering more pots

      At NL 50 you'll get eaten alive w/ a pfr of 14 (assuming you play 6-max -- it might be OK FR)

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      Yeah 6 max. How did you or do you develop this part of your game? I feel like I have hit a wall. Never really done any 'study' just played and watched others play.
    • gAsheks
      gAsheks
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2012 Posts: 1,580
      At NL 50 you'll get eaten alive w/ a pfr of 14 (assuming you play 6-max -- it might be OK FR)

      No way! Today 3/3 guy decided to 3bet me. He seemed quite confident. I had Aces. :facepalm:
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      In this strategy section:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/
      Open the part entitled "Hand Reading"

      All of the articles in there contain stuff you need at this level.
      The two gold articles aren't exactly that important to you at this stage anyway.

      Once you've digested those, play a while looking for spots to use what you've learned.
      Then check out all of the other articles silver and below.

      Hopefully some other members will recommend videos. I don't watch many.

      Keep your eye out for BSS coaching sessions.
      They are extremely valuable -- especially if you participate and ask coach questions as the session progresses.

      Best of luck,.
      --VS
    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      Been taking in some strategy and trying to look at my game a bit more honestly and what I have noticed is I seem to raise/call med - good hands and flat med to good hands and only 3 bet the top 4% which is a leak i'm sure. I have also concentrated on position. I have decided not to flat unless I have a very good reason to. i.e set mine etc. I am saying to myself if It's not worth raising, just fold. I have found that I am taking down a lot more pots with the CBET this way as the majority of player, like me are raising and then flatting my 3 bet and then fold the flop 90% of the time :) 'AMAZING' I have also found that when I do have a real hand I am getting paid off for it!! With position I am also able to keep the pots low when needed and get to the river with block bets on the turn etc etc. Had a nice spike in profit too! (graph attached)

      I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN ANY MOVEMENT IN REDLINE :(





      I have started to use equilab to look at some hands that were interesting spots. Here is one that I won. The Villain in this hand was reggy- pfr 17 24 vp. 3 bets only 4%. When he pushed on me I put him on maybe 1010 /jj/ qq / aa/ kk/ rarely - q k, 33, ak, random spade draw etc. I put it into equilab I am like 65% equity against this range.

      The more I think about it his 3 betting range is 4% which is jj - aa + aks ak & aqs. I don't think he would do this with anything but aa / kk / qq / jj / 10 10 which means he actually has 53% equity.

      Does this mean I made a bad call or with the chips in the pot its a no brainer because of the stack to pot ratio etc. if THE CARDS WERE FACE UP I HAVE 32% EQUITY :(

      $0.10-$0.25 - USD No Limit Hold'em.txt

      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to HERO [As Ks] - IM ON THE BUTTON

      dim_dim1975: raises $0.50 to $0.75
      HERO: raises $1.50 to $2.25
      dim_dim1975: calls $1.50

      *** FLOP *** [Jd 3s Ts]
      dim_dim1975: checks
      HERO: bets $3.25
      dim_dim1975: raises $31.64 to $34.89 and is all-in
      HERO: calls $31.64

      *** TURN *** [Jd 3s Ts] [6d]
      *** RIVER *** [Jd 3s Ts 6d] [Qc]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      dim_dim1975: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
      HERO: shows [As Ks] (a straight, Ten to Ace)


      Thanks
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      Originally posted by glenlivet83

      I have started to use equilab to look at some hands that were interesting spots. Here is one that I won. The Villain in this hand was reggy- pfr 17 24 vp. 3 bets only 4%. When he pushed on me I put him on maybe 1010 /jj/ qq / aa/ kk/ rarely - q k, 33, ak, random spade draw etc. I put it into equilab I am like 65% equity against this range.

      The more I think about it his 3 betting range is 4% which is jj - aa + aks ak & aqs. I don't think he would do this with anything but aa / kk / qq / jj / 10 10 which means he actually has 53% equity.

      Does this mean I made a bad call or with the chips in the pot its a no brainer because of the stack to pot ratio etc. if THE CARDS WERE FACE UP I HAVE 32% EQUITY :(

      $0.10-$0.25 - USD No Limit Hold'em.txt

      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to HERO [As Ks] - IM ON THE BUTTON

      dim_dim1975: raises $0.50 to $0.75
      HERO: raises $1.50 to $2.25
      dim_dim1975: calls $1.50

      *** FLOP *** [Jd 3s Ts]
      dim_dim1975: checks
      HERO: bets $3.25
      dim_dim1975: raises $31.64 to $34.89 and is all-in
      HERO: calls $31.64

      *** TURN *** [Jd 3s Ts] [6d]
      *** RIVER *** [Jd 3s Ts 6d] [Qc]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      dim_dim1975: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
      HERO: shows [As Ks] (a straight, Ten to Ace)


      Thanks
      Interesting spot indeed.
      I don't know that you are justified in calling, since although he may have a range preflop that is as wide as you say, his check raise shows massive strength -- so JJ or TT pretty much. JT MAYBE -- but it was not in your original range, so we should not include it here.

      What I would like to know is whether the flop bet is a good play.
      On the face of it, you have 9 flush outs, and 4 more for the gutshot, so the semi-bluff makes sense.

      I'll be interested in what others think.

      This might be a good hand to post for evaluation.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • glenlivet83
      glenlivet83
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2014 Posts: 14
      How do I post for evaluation? I have noticed hands posted. Do you need to be in a group or do you just post in the correct thread? Newbie ;)

      Cheers
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,916
      Hi, glenlivet83,
      Start with the instructions here:
      How to use the hand evaluation forum

      Cliffs:
        Post in the appropriate forum
        Post in the correct format
        Include your thoughts along with the raw hand data
        Don't include results

      It is all explained in the link above.

      If you have any questions after that, let us know.

      Best of luck,
      --VS