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Is it okay to donk?

    • Daggystyle
      Joined: 14.05.2014 Posts: 271
      Lets say you raise 88 from UTG and a nit in BU 3bets and you call because of the implied odds if you flop trips. His range would be QQ+ or KK+ in some very nitty cases.

      You flop trips when board comes 8s5d6h

      Is is advisable to donk in this situation if you know the nit won't fold his overpair. Or would a check/raise be the right move?

      I have noticed some seemingly competent player make a donk move when they flop trips/flushes or straights to see the other player reraise while being super far behind.

      Thought on this? i guess most bad players donk with top pair or draws.
  • 9 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,020
      things to consider in general: what's his cbet%, how does he react to donks?
      - if his cbet is very high you get one street out of air by c/r (compared to zero by donking)
      - however, if he has high raise donk% (like raises donks with anything as standard) you get even more :f_biggrin:
      - how much credit will he give to your c/r (fold to c/r)

      you'll usually get a lot of value against overpairs anyway so you should consider how can you maximize value against the weaker parts of his range

      in the specific case of being against nits in 3bet pots: do whatever you want, though it can't hurt to try to get the money in asap, right :f_biggrin: like if he has QQ a K or A might scare him into not wanting to ship it anymore
    • Daggystyle
      Joined: 14.05.2014 Posts: 271
      Thanks tomaloc, just the answer i was looking for. I guess generalizing too much is not a good thing. I should make mysrlf more familiar with the pop up hud, as up until this day i have only used stats from the Hud and never used the pop up.
    • HuhtalaJ
      Joined: 19.04.2010 Posts: 7,166
      As Tomaloc said, it depend a lot and it's good to target the weaker parts on the range if it's easy to get it in against the stronger part, but I've got one thing to add: this board in you example could be really scary to overpairs when check/raised if the nit is also nitty postflop, so therefore a donking line to induce raises from him could be really good. Although if the opponent cbets 100% of his AK combos to boards this wet, then checking looks really good of course.
    • NoLimitsForMe
      Joined: 20.07.2014 Posts: 2
      Actually what are rules? It all depends on several things. Many people only play and let the cards do the rest. Always study on your opponent, and try to forget your own hand for a sec. What is your position, your stack, opponents stack. You can go for safe and just make a winning bet. Often I see players setting traps... but fall in themselves and start complaining... funny.
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      personally i don't really see a point in donking i think it's probably fps for these reasons:

      1) he cbets his overpairs anyway
      2) we can check/call flop, turn and river (assuming he's not passive to check back his overpairs on later streets which some ppl do) and still be all in on the river while maxing out value vs any bluffs he might have
      3) we can x/r flop, or x/r turn and get it in that way because he isn't folding
      4) when we donk our play stands out and it is extremely easy for your opponent to make a note about what range you did that with. will you call OOP and donk as a bluff? probably not, because you will often have PPs that missed their sets in that spot, and to donk that as a bluff would be pretty bad imo.

      but then if he isn't really paying much attention we can just donk it - i have noticed people play quite badly against donks i.e. they just don't fold much. mostly it seems like people try to float them, some aggressive ppl raise them but i think that's rare for nl25 and below from my experience (can't talk about nl50+). imo donking is something you should do and really take notes on how villain responds to it and then adjust to that specific villain once you have proof.
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,721
      What is the purpose in donking?

      For example:
      Full Tilt, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, Rush, 6 Players

      SB: $2.21 (110.5 bb)
      BB: $3.09 (154.5 bb)
      UTG: $2.93 (146.5 bb)
      MP: $1.96 (98 bb)
      Hero (CO): $3.28 (164 bb)
      BTN: $2.07 (103.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with T A
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BTN folds, SB calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.18) 6 8 J (3 players)
      SB bets $0.18, 2 folds

      With a decent draw, or a decent piece of the flop, I might call this, with the intention of trying to take it away on later streets, or even 3Bet now.

      As it is, if villain has air, he kicked me and one other out of the pot.
      If he really HAD a hand, he failed to get anything for it.

      If I DO have a hand, I prefer to check/raise -- at least that way, you get villain's CBet, and maybe more.

      If I DON'T have a hand, I might play check/call if there is a decent chance my hand will improve, and I can STILL take the hand away later if a sufficiently scary card comes along.

      So yeah, what DrDunne said...
    • Tomaloc
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 7,020
      Originally posted by DrDunne
      i have noticed people play quite badly against donks
      people just hear "don't donkbet and don't give donkbets credit", but what do they do? food for thought for those who wanna listen :f_biggrin:
    • rompas
      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 3,270
      sure against some players really good
    • NezNanec
      Joined: 15.03.2011 Posts: 85
      What works best for me in this kind of situation is a 1/2 pot bet, trying to look like you have AK or something similar. Most people with overpairs (especially nits that wait for these types of hands for 10 minutes and get frustrated) will 2bet and then you can shove over them (I rarely see anyone that has more than 1/2 stack in the pot folding at the micros).

      This also gets you value from hands like AQ and AK, which will usually flat and then bet big if an overcard such as A or K comes (although I guess this doesn't apply here as you're pretty sure about his range).