Some questions regarding implied odds about draws and scs

    • Suboptimal88
      Suboptimal88
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2014 Posts: 53
      1. Whats the implied odds needed to call with a flush or straight draw postflop? for example a good standar default rule for pocket pairs is to win x20 your investment , i know more elements come into play postflop like how likely is to get paid on certain boards but whats a good general rule about draws? how much of my investment i should be able to win?


      2. Whats the implied odds needed to call with suited connectors or suited gappers? how much i should be able to win ?

      I know in both examples villain's tendecies play the bigger role and how likely is to get paid but i want a default rule when im in doubt.
  • 4 replies
    • CustardKid
      CustardKid
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2014 Posts: 171
      I think you should look at the beginners strategy on odds and outs and implied odds
      flush draw you need 4:1 pot ods so maybe you can default implied ods at 3:1 when you ip

      and straight draw is 5:1 pot odds needed but its slightly more disguised so I would go with around 3.5:1 maybe ip

      but stack size and player type and what hand strength you think your opponent has needs to all be taken into consideration. i.e you get check raised to 28 bb holding a straight draw for 100bb you are pretty confident villain has a set you have invested 12 bb and now have 88bbs, 28+12=40/16= 2.5:1 pot odds now since villain is OP and will lead out on the turn of about 2/3 the pot he has already given you the implied odds (well a few $s off) you need + he is nearly committed to the pot to for you to gain the rest of his stack

      I hope this helped

      regards
      ck
    • Suboptimal88
      Suboptimal88
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2014 Posts: 53
      Originally posted by CustardKid
      I think you should look at the beginners strategy on odds and outs and implied odds
      flush draw you need 4:1 pot ods so maybe you can default implied ods at 3:1 when you ip

      and straight draw is 5:1 pot odds needed but its slightly more disguised so I would go with around 3.5:1 maybe ip

      but stack size and player type and what hand strength you think your opponent has needs to all be taken into consideration. i.e you get check raised to 28 bb holding a straight draw for 100bb you are pretty confident villain has a set you have invested 12 bb and now have 88bbs, 28+12=40/16= 2.5:1 pot odds now since villain is OP and will lead out on the turn of about 2/3 the pot he has already given you the implied odds (well a few $s off) you need + he is nearly committed to the pot to for you to gain the rest of his stack

      I hope this helped

      regards
      ck
      i dont understand the 3:1 logic , shouldnt we only care about the stack size we can win ?

      for example with pairs we call if we can win x20 our investment and we have 11% chance to hit a set with those.

      Flush draw has about 17% chance to be completed on each street which means our default calling rule can be lighter than x20 , the question is how much it should be? i mean
      if someone has 2000 stack for example and he bets 100 into a 200 or even 100 pot , we can call even thought we dont get 3:1 odds because we can win x20 our investment similar to pocket pairs. isnt that right?
    • CustardKid
      CustardKid
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2014 Posts: 171
      For a start a flush draw is 19% on each street so close to 4:1 pot odds needed to make the call profitable to fold if we miss, now let's say villain bets 20 into a 40 pot, 20+40=60 divide that by the amount you need to call gives you your pot odds 60/20= 3:1 pot odds but we need 4:1 pot odds to make this a profitable call so with implied odds we only need to make another 20 from later streets in order to bring our 3:1 pot odds to 4:1 do you understand now?

      Ck
    • Suboptimal88
      Suboptimal88
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2014 Posts: 53
      Originally posted by CustardKid
      For a start a flush draw is 19% on each street so close to 4:1 pot odds needed to make the call profitable to fold if we miss, now let's say villain bets 20 into a 40 pot, 20+40=60 divide that by the amount you need to call gives you your pot odds 60/20= 3:1 pot odds but we need 4:1 pot odds to make this a profitable call so with implied odds we only need to make another 20 from later streets in order to bring our 3:1 pot odds to 4:1 do you understand now?

      Ck
      Interesting , but we usually need to win much more than the excess money from the previous street , i mean we need to be able to make more than 20 (in your example) on the next street to compensate for the times villain folds or has a better hand , in your example we obviously can make much more but lets take an extreme example where villains throws 2 pot sized bets on flop and turn , if he has 100bb and he raised x3 preflop , if we call his bet on turn then we need to make like 15bb on river and his stack is x5 this amount , is this enough? could that mean we can even call pot sized bets on turn profitably?

      Also the 19% chance to hit our flush isnt clear because someone may hold a card of the same suit.