Few questions FR Zoom

    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Hello!

      The game is FR Zoom NL5 and I've got few questions about 3b/4b with strong hands against nity players. I hate to fold Kings preflop but is it legit fold against player who has 3b less than 2%. I don't mind to stack off with 100bb or deeper but is it good long term at this level (NL5 and higher) to go AI against those kind of player. Below i've got 2 examples what i have been talking about.

      [spoiler]
      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $15.71 (314.2 bb)
      BB: $10.41 (208.2 bb) 13/11/1.8; 884hands
      UTG+1: $12.68 (253.6 bb)
      UTG+2: $9.95 (199 bb)
      MP1: $3.39 (67.8 bb)
      Hero (MP2): $5.25 (105 bb)
      MP3: $7.37 (147.4 bb)
      CO: $4.85 (97 bb)
      BTN: $8.65 (173 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K K
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.15, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $1.80, CO folds, BB raises to $10.41 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.45 and is all-in

      Flop: ($10.67) 2 8 T (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      Turn: ($10.67) 3 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($10.67) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $10.67 pot ($0.44 rake)
      Final Board: 2 8 T 3 7
      BB showed A A and won $10.23 ($4.98 net)
      Hero mucked K K and lost (-$5.25 net)

      [spoiler]
      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $3.84 (76.8 bb)
      BB: $7.74 (154.8 bb)
      UTG+1: $4.95 (99 bb)
      UTG+2: $8.78 (175.6 bb)
      MP1: $5.11 (102.2 bb)
      Hero (MP2): $5.53 (110.6 bb)
      MP3: $7.56 (151.2 bb)
      CO: $5 (100 bb) 6/6/0: 50hands
      BTN: $5 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K K
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.45, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.20, CO raises to $3, Hero folds

      Results:
      $2.47 pot
      CO mucked and won $2.47 ($1.27 net)


      Maybe second example was call but i had 3 KK vs AA the day before and lost it all three times.

      Second question will be about 3b/4b from BB against BTN with QQ especially against nit/tag-ish players, is just call 3b better line or should i just shove every time?

      [spoiler]
      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.46 (109.2 bb)
      Hero (BB): $6.48 (129.6 bb)
      UTG+1: $10.20 (204 bb)
      UTG+2: $5.42 (108.4 bb)
      MP1: $6.34 (126.8 bb)
      MP2: $4.08 (81.6 bb)
      MP3: $2.41 (48.2 bb)
      CO: $5.19 (103.8 bb)
      BTN: $7.08 (141.6 bb) 26/21/0: 20hands

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
      6 folds, BTN raises to $0.15, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.45, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $6.48 and is all-in, BTN calls $5.73

      Flop: ($12.98) 3 7 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($12.98) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($12.98) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      $12.98 pot ($0.54 rake)
      Final Board: 3 7 7 5 J
      Hero showed Q Q and lost (-$6.48 net)
      BTN showed K K and won $12.44 ($5.96 net)


      I've got problems with those spots so what's yours opinion and advices regarding that, let's say problems or leaks:

      Thanks in advance!
  • 2 replies
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      to fold KK pre you need a huge sample and i doubt you have that on nl5 zoom... i know you probably get ppl who play higher than nl5 telling you that folding KK is a mistake preflop, but it's so true.

      if you have KK and a 2% 3bettor 3bets you, just flat it you don't HAVE to stack off (although you should, because your sample is probably tiny).

      in hand 1 you could call if CO wasn't involved - we don't want to call and see a multiway pot with KK. so with the dead money i would never fold that and just 4bet/call - sometimes he folds and you win it, sometimes he jams and has AK and QQ (he should have AK and QQ). no matter what his stats, he is not very good. he is nitty as hell but you CANNOT fold KK to a 3bet.

      in hand 2 you have 50 hands on him, no decision there - get it in.

      getting stacked sucks, but running KK into AA, even against someone with a low 3bet, isn't going to be a longterm problem. things like cbet strategy, blindplay and 3bet strategy, along with turn and river play are going to be the most important thing and you should really stop worrying about running KK into AA and start worrying about those things.

      about your second question, no question about it - 3bet/jam from the blinds vs BU (and CO) with QQ and never call the 3bet with QQ. same goes for AK.

      [edit] ok i didn't pay attention about it being fullring, but still i THINK it all still applies.. this is the top of your range. if people are 4betting only the nuts then you should 3bet much wider. if they are calling a lot then you should 3bet wide as hell for value, if they just keep folding like nits then you should 3bet very polarised and have mostly bluffs.
    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      thanks dunne for your reply!

      i know that sample isn't big, although think that 1k hands should be enough for some approximate data and stats. but i agree with you about that folding KK is mistake, promise that never-ever will do that, beside that run 7 times in short time KK vs. AA and lost it every single time X( . but there is no surrender :s_biggrin: .

      in second situation i was in little doubt, think that shoving is better line and +EV but wasn't sure about that play, thanks for clarification.

      thanks for yours answers and good luck at tables!