What is the average ROI for $3.50 turbo 45 men?

    • fourze
      fourze
      Basic
      Joined: 25.06.2014 Posts: 6
      Just curious to find out what is the average ROI for grinding $1.50 turbo 45 men?

      Let's say it's over a sample of almost 2K of hands.

      My results

      ITM is 21.5%
      ROI is 13.32%

      Is it below average?

      Appreciate if the SNG pros can enlighten me here.

      Thanks!
  • 10 replies
    • Wolfske
      Wolfske
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 6,277
      It isn't bad , it isn't like exceptionally good.

      Btw average players don't make profit .. ;)

      YOu say 2k hands ? Do you mean 2K tourneys ?
      Don't focus to much on this stuff. Focus on improving !
    • fourze
      fourze
      Basic
      Joined: 25.06.2014 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by Wolfske
      It isn't bad , it isn't like exceptionally good.

      Btw average players don't make profit .. ;)

      YOu say 2k hands ? Do you mean 2K tourneys ?
      Don't focus to much on this stuff. Focus on improving !
      Yeah I played 2K tourneys.
      Been trying to improve my game by reading more articles and most importantly reviewing those hands that I have lost.
    • Wolfske
      Wolfske
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 6,277
      Since you are playing 45 mans
      I suggest:

      - Learning FT's + ICM implications
      - Fixating on stacksizes 0-15bb
      - Learning to play with stacksizes 15-30bb (minraising etc)

      --> use icmizer or hold'em recources

      If you're stuck let some of your friends review your games together with you, let them ask many questions
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      Originally posted by fourze
      Just curious to find out what is the average ROI for grinding $1.50 turbo 45 men?

      Let's say it's over a sample of almost 2K of hands.

      My results

      ITM is 21.5%
      ROI is 13.32%

      Is it below average?

      Appreciate if the SNG pros can enlighten me here.

      Thanks!
      it's very good IMO, but 2k tourneys is not a sample. not even 5k tourneys.. I find the swings in these tourneys can often mask your true ROI. the swings are that big!
    • fourze
      fourze
      Basic
      Joined: 25.06.2014 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by Wolfske
      Since you are playing 45 mans
      I suggest:

      - Learning FT's + ICM implications
      - Fixating on stacksizes 0-15bb
      - Learning to play with stacksizes 15-30bb (minraising etc)

      --> use icmizer or hold'em recources

      If you're stuck let some of your friends review your games together with you, let them ask many questions
      Really appreciate your kind suggestions Wolfske.

      Do you have any good links that are related to what you suggested to me??
    • fourze
      fourze
      Basic
      Joined: 25.06.2014 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by gavinonymous
      Originally posted by fourze
      Just curious to find out what is the average ROI for grinding $1.50 turbo 45 men?

      Let's say it's over a sample of almost 2K of hands.

      My results

      ITM is 21.5%
      ROI is 13.32%

      Is it below average?

      Appreciate if the SNG pros can enlighten me here.

      Thanks!
      it's very good IMO, but 2k tourneys is not a sample. not even 5k tourneys.. I find the swings in these tourneys can often mask your true ROI. the swings are that big!
      I totally agree with you that the swings are quite insane at times. I can have a downswing of 15-20 buy ins during a session.

      As recommended by many pros, we need at least 100 buy ins or 200 buy ins(ideally) in order to grind comfortably for SnGs.

      so what is the recommended sample size for these 45 men turbo sngs?
      10K, 20K or 50K tourneys?
    • Wolfske
      Wolfske
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 6,277
      Originally posted by fourze
      Originally posted by Wolfske
      Since you are playing 45 mans
      I suggest:

      - Learning FT's + ICM implications
      - Fixating on stacksizes 0-15bb
      - Learning to play with stacksizes 15-30bb (minraising etc)

      --> use icmizer or hold'em recources

      If you're stuck let some of your friends review your games together with you, let them ask many questions
      Really appreciate your kind suggestions Wolfske.

      Do you have any good links that are related to what you suggested to me??
      You have a couple of free searches here: http://www.icmpoker.com/icmizer/

      This is free for nashranges, it gives an idea for unexploitable ranges
      http://www.holdemresources.net/h/web-calculators/nashicm.html
      (if you are in the begining set the structure to 1, if you are at the FT set the payout structure of 45 mans)

      Watch Katiedozier and collin moshmans 45 mans video .. you can probably also learn a lot from the 180 mans for the earlier stages of the games you play. You could also watch tomsom who is a good reg I play against in 180 mans

      Maybe also these even though I didn't watch them:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/31210
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/29147
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/27375 (very good one, this)

      Just learn those ranges in chipev and then learn your FT ranges (wich are completely different)
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,245
      Awesome discussion going on here guys. Very helpful to me as well. :f_thumbsup:
    • Paakjis
      Paakjis
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2009 Posts: 141
      13% is really ok, 45 man's in any buy in starting form 1.50 for me was a nightmare, hopefully I quickly switched to 180, for me and I think in general, they are more profitable than 45.

      Here a two sample of possible swings. all 3 with 13% in 1.50 45

      2k games



      5k games



      even after 5k games, of course it's not likely, but anyway it is possible to catch a massive downswing.

      And finally 10k games, I think this would be perfect sample to determine your game and trust your actual roi.

    • fourze
      fourze
      Basic
      Joined: 25.06.2014 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by Paakjis
      13% is really ok, 45 man's in any buy in starting form 1.50 for me was a nightmare, hopefully I quickly switched to 180, for me and I think in general, they are more profitable than 45.

      Here a two sample of possible swings. all 3 with 13% in 1.50 45

      2k games

      http://cdn.imghack.se/images/7fb530696bc88a247a4ccfa17cfdfb46.png

      5k games

      http://cdn.imghack.se/images/f6419eb218c0eeb19362363c89afcd6f.png

      even after 5k games, of course it's not likely, but anyway it is possible to catch a massive downswing.

      And finally 10k games, I think this would be perfect sample to determine your game and trust your actual roi.

      http://cdn.imghack.se/images/caf19843ab220dc8bba11bb4db6f1d76.png
      Thank you for sharing the graphs. I'll grind 10K of tourneys and post the results here soon