pt4 Stat River Bluff Frequency

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Hi,

      I downloaded pt4 stat "River Bluff Frequency", which should tell how often is villian bluffing on river when betting.
      Seems like a useful stat, but I am not sure if it works correctly, because it is custom stat. It looked to me unlogical in some cases. So I wanted to check, if someone of you is using this stat, knows a bit more about it.

      Also, can somebody recommend some other useful custom stats. For example, I use raise flop, bet turn %, call raise flop, fold turn % and also I am not sure if it works correctly since it is custom.
  • 5 replies
    • lnternet
      lnternet
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      Probably best to ask in the PT4 forums how this stat works.

      Generally though, river stats are not very useful, due to sample size. Even on 10'000 hands you will not have sufficient sample on things like "3barrel%" or "fold to 3barrel".

      Other stats: I don't use PT4, best you make a separate thread in their forums or make a PT4 thread here.
    • Shakaflaka
      Shakaflaka
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2010 Posts: 512
      I'm not using PT4 either. But I've seen using W$SD when betting river (bet river as a general stat, not 3 barrel).
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by lnternet
      Probably best to ask in the PT4 forums how this stat works.

      Generally though, river stats are not very useful, due to sample size. Even on 10'000 hands you will not have sufficient sample on things like "3barrel%" or "fold to 3barrel".

      Other stats: I don't use PT4, best you make a separate thread in their forums or make a PT4 thread here.
      Yeah I know that it is allways small sample, but often it is enough to have 10 samples to conclude that somebody is very agro, e.g. by seeing he bluffed 9/10 times. Or most of the time I see regs having something like bluffed river 2/20 times.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      For someone that knows how this stat works, how is it derived?
      When is "betting for thin value" in reality bluffing?
      Where does "semi-bluffing" fit into the equation?

      A stat like "leads river on checked turn" seems more useful -- implies nothing about the strength of player's hand.

      Cheers,
      VS
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      (cnt_r_bet_bluff / cnt_r_bet_known) * 100

      this is how it is done. but I dont know how to see the definition of bet bluff.
      As I read in pt4 forum, this stat is taking into account mostly high cards, low pairs etc. Yeah it is actually very tough to analyse what is bluff on river unless we take into consideration whole ranges, which is impossible for hud to calculate so fast.
      So this stat is likely very unprecise. I often turn hands into bluff if I think it is max EV, so likely pt4 thinks I didnt bluff.

      Also stat as W$SD is not much usefull, because it could be that villian was bluffing once 9/10 times for smaller pots and lost, and that he didnt bluff once for big pot and won. Or that he was only value betting but had worse hand. So imo all those stats are only usefull if they are very extrem, to recognize if someone is super agro or doesnt bluff at all.

      "leads river on checked turn" also imo doesnt tell much unless extreme. Here we even need to consider preflop to turn stats because it could be that villian never bluffs turn and thus has low cbet turn % but bets river 100%.