Need Help figuring this out…

    • aahitman
      aahitman
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2008 Posts: 34
      (hope this is theright place for this Topic)...

      Got a couple of questions I need answer... Please, before I tilt :)

      First of all, I’d like to say that I’ve studying a lot about SSS and I’ve been going to the Coaching giving Ingol a hard time with my beginners questions, but… that’s how we start… :)
      Got all the possible charts memorized, but also always next to me.
      So my first 3 sessions, went fine, actually made money, 13 ptBB/100, always with $8/hour. But, since then it all fell apart, the cards are not appearing (or they appear but on wrong position). Loosing a bad beat after another… Like this one…

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 10 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      MP2: $2.48 (24.8 bb)
      MP3: $11.05 (110.5 bb)
      CO: $2 (20 bb)
      BTN: $10 (100 bb)
      SB: $1.90 (19 bb)
      BB: $9.56 (95.6 bb)
      UTG: $13.34 (133.4 bb)
      UTG+1: $13.21 (132.1 bb)
      Hero (UTG+2): $1.70 (17 bb)
      MP1: $10 (100 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with J:diamond: J:club:
      CO posts BB out of position, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 5 folds

      Flop: ($1.25) T:club: T:diamond: 4:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.20 and is all-in, MP2 calls $1.20

      Turn: ($3.65) 7:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($3.65) 7:diamond: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $3.65 pot ($0.18 rake)
      Hero showed Jd Jc (two pairs, Jacks and Tens) and lost (-$1.70 net)
      MP2 showed 7s 7h (four of a kind, Sevens) and won $3.47 ($1.77 net)


      And I’m following the SSS strategy to the book, SHC, pre-flop raise, after the flop, etc.

      And now this is what I have… (don’t mind my first session haven’t read the articles yet). Well, the important part is that I’m not losing money, but I’m not winning also. So, my question is:







      Is this what you call a downswing?
      If so, it will improve no matter what if I stick to the SSS?
      Is this a normal statistic for a beginner?
      And most important, what do you think am I doing wrong, if I follow the SSS by the book?

      P.S: I’d like to say, that I do believe SSS, I just want to understand if this is a downswing and if I continue to play 100.000 hands the chart will always continue with this ups&downs but always moving up…

      Thanks in advance.

      P.S.: While I was writing this I stopped for an hour and went to play on Party Poker, Lost another $2 (so went back to starting capital $50). With…

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      MP3: $9.97 (99.7 bb)
      CO: $6.70 (67 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $2.23 (22.3 bb)
      SB: $10 (100 bb)
      BB: $16.03 (160.3 bb)
      UTG+1: $4.87 (48.7 bb)
      UTG+2: $3.89 (38.9 bb)
      MP1: $10.96 (109.6 bb)
      MP2: $1.85 (18.5 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with A:club: K:heart:
      2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.15) K:diamond: 5:diamond: J:club: (2 players)
      MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.82, MP1 calls $0.82

      Turn: ($2.79) 5:spade: (2 players)
      MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.91 and is all-in, MP1 calls $0.91

      River: ($4.61) Q:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $4.61 pot ($0.23 rake)
      MP1 showed Td Ad (a straight, Ten to Ace) and won $4.38 ($2.15 net)
      Hero mucked Ac Kh (two pairs, Kings and Fives) and lost (-$2.23 net)


      And with this one

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      SB: $2.06 (20.6 bb)
      BB: $9.01 (90.1 bb)
      UTG+1: $8.27 (82.7 bb)
      Hero (UTG+2): $1.70 (17 bb)
      MP1: $13.66 (136.6 bb)
      MP2: $2.96 (29.6 bb)
      MP3: $4.65 (46.5 bb)
      CO: $10.33 (103.3 bb)
      BTN: $1.65 (16.5 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with A:spade: K:heart:
      UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.70, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.70 and is all-in

      Flop: ($3.55) A:heart: 4:spade: J:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($3.55) 9:diamond: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($3.55) 7:spade: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $3.55 pot ($0.17 rake)
      MP3 showed 9c 9h (three of a kind, Nines) and won $3.38 ($1.68 net)
      Hero showed As Kh (a pair of Aces) and lost (-$1.70 net)


      So… What’s happening are these normal downswings?

      Sorry about large pictures will arrange them next time...
  • 10 replies
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Completely normal. Specially since you have only played 5 days. Poker rarely is a "get-rich-fast" game. Most people have to grind there way to the top.

      When you started winning you were confident and happy, now that you lost a few times you feel depressed and unhappy.
      If there were a strat that made you win all the time there would be no losers at poker.

      Your first 2 hands are bad beats. Rebuy and try and get them all-in again later on, you will win against them like 80% of the time. You just experienced one of the 20% where you lose.
      Your 3rd hand is a coin flip, AK isnt all that good against tight players but its a good blind stealer.

      Bear in mind that a good player make like 6-12BB/100 so you should be happy by taking the blinds. Anything else is a bonus.

      Edit: A downswing is WAY worse than this.
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      Chart looks similiar to my starter chart. Looks close to the others who have posted thiers. Seems normal to me. Keep grinding and post hands you lose with where it was not obvious what to do or how to bet. In your JJ hand you played perfect, look at 20 more JJ from UTG and see how you fare. The first AK hand I would post in the forum. The second you played perfectly.

      In the first AK hand I should conti-bet 2/3 pot. That would be .76 or 44% of my remaining stack. I should simply push the flop for maximum FE and to give villian terrible hand odds to continue a draw. Maybe judges would tell you something else, so post it.
    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      In your 1st hand with JJ MP2 played very spewy, very newbish, AK hand the same, keep playing like this vs these opponents and you will be getting fast money, just unlucky, don't worry, shit happens, when you play a lot there are much bugger downswings. I lost KK 7 times in a row preflop vs worst hand BSS some weeks ago.
    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Originally posted by TheBrood
      Your 3rd hand is a coin flip, AK isnt all that good against tight players but its a good blind stealer.
      Omg aee you serious about AK being blindstealer ?:D Havn't heard funnier AK description :)
    • aahitman
      aahitman
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2008 Posts: 34
      Thanks guys for all your help, I'll keep trying cause I believe I'll make it in the long run, but it keeps getting harder lol... Had this session right now... the cards again didn't came (6 tables, 108 hands, 30mts) only 3 hands played except BB... a 99 on SB (only 20cents.) a KQ on CO (gave me 50cens, reached 25 bb so lft the table)... and this hand.... it's for laughs... My worring right now is that I'm below $50 starting capital, so hope it gets better.... The K on the flop was just to keep me happy for a second...

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      MP1: $1.90 (19 bb)
      MP2: $10.25 (102.5 bb)
      MP3: $9.71 (97.1 bb)
      CO: $9.80 (98 bb)
      BTN: $9.10 (91 bb)
      SB: $26.23 (262.3 bb)
      BB: $16.28 (162.8 bb)
      UTG+1: $8.49 (84.9 bb)
      Hero (UTG+2): $2 (20 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with K:diamond: K:heart:
      UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BTN raises to $2.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.60 and is all-in

      Flop: ($4.15) 8:heart: K:spade: 8:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($4.15) 7:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($4.15) A:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: $4.15 pot ($0.20 rake)
      BTN showed 8:diamond: 8:spade: (four of a kind, Eights) and won $3.95 ($1.95 net)
      Hero showed K:diamond: K:heart: (a full house, Kings full of Eights) and lost (-$2 net)
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      13ptbb/100 is huge, dont get used to winning that much :P
    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Originally posted by aahitman
      Thanks guys for all your help, I'll keep trying cause I believe I'll make it in the long run, but it keeps getting harder lol... Had this session right now... the cards again didn't came (6 tables, 108 hands, 30mts) only 3 hands played except BB... a 99 on SB (only 20cents.) a KQ on CO (gave me 50cens, reached 25 bb so lft the table)... and this hand.... it's for laughs... My worring right now is that I'm below $50 starting capital, so hope it gets better.... The K on the flop was just to keep me happy for a second...

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      MP1: $1.90 (19 bb)
      MP2: $10.25 (102.5 bb)
      MP3: $9.71 (97.1 bb)
      CO: $9.80 (98 bb)
      BTN: $9.10 (91 bb)
      SB: $26.23 (262.3 bb)
      BB: $16.28 (162.8 bb)
      UTG+1: $8.49 (84.9 bb)
      Hero (UTG+2): $2 (20 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with K:diamond: K:heart:
      UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BTN raises to $2.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.60 and is all-in

      Flop: ($4.15) 8:heart: K:spade: 8:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($4.15) 7:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($4.15) A:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: $4.15 pot ($0.20 rake)
      BTN showed 8:diamond: 8:spade: (four of a kind, Eights) and won $3.95 ($1.95 net)
      Hero showed K:diamond: K:heart: (a full house, Kings full of Eights) and lost (-$2 net)
      Such things happens like 3-4 timea a month when you play enough hands, just get used to it, read the psychology article about reframing.
    • Kanitchet
      Kanitchet
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2008 Posts: 5
      Originally posted by Solomaextra
      Originally posted by aahitman
      Thanks guys for all your help, I'll keep trying cause I believe I'll make it in the long run, but it keeps getting harder lol... Had this session right now... the cards again didn't came (6 tables, 108 hands, 30mts) only 3 hands played except BB... a 99 on SB (only 20cents.) a KQ on CO (gave me 50cens, reached 25 bb so lft the table)... and this hand.... it's for laughs... My worring right now is that I'm below $50 starting capital, so hope it gets better.... The K on the flop was just to keep me happy for a second...

      --------------------
      HAND #1
      --------------------

      Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
      Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

      MP1: $1.90 (19 bb)
      MP2: $10.25 (102.5 bb)
      MP3: $9.71 (97.1 bb)
      CO: $9.80 (98 bb)
      BTN: $9.10 (91 bb)
      SB: $26.23 (262.3 bb)
      BB: $16.28 (162.8 bb)
      UTG+1: $8.49 (84.9 bb)
      Hero (UTG+2): $2 (20 bb)

      Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with K:diamond: K:heart:
      UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BTN raises to $2.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.60 and is all-in

      Flop: ($4.15) 8:heart: K:spade: 8:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($4.15) 7:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($4.15) A:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: $4.15 pot ($0.20 rake)
      BTN showed 8:diamond: 8:spade: (four of a kind, Eights) and won $3.95 ($1.95 net)
      Hero showed K:diamond: K:heart: (a full house, Kings full of Eights) and lost (-$2 net)
      Such things happens like 3-4 timea a month when you play enough hands, just get used to it, read the psychology article about reframing.
      I don't know it unusaul or not such this thiing happen to me about 6-10 times a day with just 100- 300 hand
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Low PP vs High PP = 12/88 Preflop
      AK vs Any PP = 45/55 mostly


      Having that said, its pretty common that you win/lose coinflips but in the end this is completely normal in SSS, especially when you are new so you make mistakes! Do not worry and post every hand you have doubts on after Analyzing your play rather than worrying about results!.

      You are playing on NL10, players are idiots so bad beats will often occur. only when you have invested all your money in a 65/35 situation, you know you will win 65 times out of 100 and lose 35 times. This makes it a net profit of 30times the pot.

      Again, do not worry about results yet unless you reach the 20k-25k hands you played. Then we can analyze your stats/plays more in terms of VPIP.

      For now, learn as much as you can, losing sucks but analyze why you lost and what you can do to improve. Poker is easy to play, hard to master even I, a Shorstack player on Nl100 has loads and loads of things still to learn.

      BR Building doesn't mean you have it all for the Highstakes within x days/weeks. It is slowly moving up but stable in terms of LONG TERM.

      I hope you interpret this as a moral boost rather than something negative. Give it your best and you will rise up the occassion :)

      - Gerv
    • aahitman
      aahitman
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2008 Posts: 34
      Thanks 2x Gerv,

      Thank you for your feedback, and I do get it, now I believe in the Long Term factor about Poker, and strted to play SSS by the book, without tilting (I've seen that bad beats accour every day to big players ec etc).

      And another thanks is that when I was reading the articles and reading the foruns to see people improvements I came across your blog (dedicated to SSS) and that was the main reason I left SNG and started to dedicate myself to SSS. However I saw your improvements (and your graphs are allways going up) with SSS and that was the reason I posted this thread, to find out if it is normal for an SSS player to allways be up&down, now I know that sometimes it happens... And guess what? I'm up again... Just moved from $40 to $70... And I found out also that from now on until I get those 25.000 hands I'll not care the statistics, but the way I play and read and reread and rereread those articles again and again until I know them by heart... All I got to do is keep those BB/100 allways postive, be it 1 or 20... Thanks again... (by the way nice blog, good for beguinners to see what SSS can do...)