Question about A9 hand on specific board and similar. It's bothering me a lot.

    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      I had a hand some days which I can't find but I remember it, I didn't pay much attention to it at 1st but since today's morning some thought have reminded me of that hand and I've been like thinking of it the whole day unil I decided to ask a suggestion here, it's really bothering me :-)

      So what would be omptimal play here in these 4 situations? 6 Max table.

      Stats: Hero(22/19/2,2/22), Villain(same stats), 22 is WTS.

      a)
      Hero is BU with A :club: 9 :club: .
      Hero raises to 4$, SB folds, BB calls.

      Flop: 4 :heart: 5 :diamond: 9 :spade: .

      BB bets 5$, Hero ? Would actually a raise be any good here?!

      b)
      Hero is BB with A :club: 9 :club: .
      Villain(BU) raises to 4$, SB folds, Hero calls.

      Flop: 4 :heart: 5 :diamond: 9 :spade: .

      1) Hero ? Donks? If Villain raises Hero's donk it becomes interesting.
      2) Hero checks, BU bets 5$, Hero? Would a raise be any good here?

      Thank in in advance, would like to hear some argumented compitent answers.
  • 5 replies
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      In both situations I am inclined to play for pot control, what means calling. If I raise I would raise smalish to not fold out hands that I actually beat. With a lot of action before, like you bluff raised him a couple of times, a raise becomes more interesting because you can now balance your bluff raises. In general I prefer to raise more IP then OOP, because you decide how to proceed on further streets.

      b) 1) - same reasoning as before - did you donk before ( history), does he bluff raise donks? If so it becomes a valid option to donk out. In general I would prefer c/c though.

      I hope that helps.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Yes, thank you, that helps, my questions goes a bit deeper tho. 1st of all, hands like JT, KQ, KJ have 30% equity against us so it would be not a bad idea to protect here, secondly, by raising we could figure out where we stand and possibly make this TAG opponent throw away his over pair by 2nd/3rd barreling if we figure out he has an overpair with a good probability, also we could just throw away our hand after his flop 3bet which would cost us less than calling 3 streets on good cards which would be very interesting(imagine this opponent bets 3 streets, I guess on the river it's either a bluff or a set then, sometimes overpair), with AT-AJ I would just call on 56T/J board, with A7/8 I'd probably donk-fold. but A9.

      Nevertheless, let' assume we are OOP, villain cbets in 100% of cases on this board and also always floats above mentiones hands if we donk, what's then? We bet flop, then what? We can always check-call turn profitably? Should we check-fold to TJQK on the turn? 8, 7? Wouldn't checl-raise be better here? What line is +EV on this flop? Maybe I just have to stop defending passivly with A9s at BB? So many questions in my mind :-)

      To TribunCaesar about the history, it's difficult to observe opps playing 9 tables.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Well, you usually do not have to protect just against overcards, especially not if he is aggressive and second barrels with any hand or floats with any hand. You just play the value line against an aggressive opponent by c/calling. However, there are situations where you can balance your bluffs with such top pair hands of course. You should always be capable of doing such a play with more then one type of hands. But make sure you understand how your opp interpret your play. C/c --> weakish hands c/r ---> strong hand or bluff. Those balncing reasons only make sense against thinking players obv.

      If villain cbets 100%...nice...c/c or c/r is best. He floats always? Nice....bet flop and c/c turn for max value. And we are not folding to just one overcard, that's for sure. Defending with A9s can be done by calling or 3betting. Be able to play both I'd say. But don't do it against a nitty UTG raiser ;)

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • Solomaextra
      Solomaextra
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Ok, I got it. But I can't agree with you that we don't have to protect vs overs, they give villain almost the same equity as fd and sd.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      TPTK isnt the nuts, so you can't really go out there and start betting strong to protect it because he could have you beat with 2pair, set, overpair, etc.
      Also if you "protect" your hand like this, an aggresive bluffer will fold his trash.

      So basically you try and get a cheap showdown(c/c) without the risk of him 3bet bluffing you out of the hand. This way you dont have to go all-in against a better hand but you still induce bluffs from an aggresive player. If he has a monster hand he will prob bet less than pot to not scare you away. If he shoves river you prob are behind and can fold. Unless hes very bad in which case I might call his shove with TPTK.