Collin Moshman SnG STT / MTT

    • RuiVieira78
      RuiVieira78
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2013 Posts: 411
      I'm reading the SnG-Strategy @CollinMoshman book

      I can't understand if that style he talks on Sng 9man if we can include all it in SnG 45man or 90man or 180man

      That book only describe STT ?


      I usually play TAG even in 180man I thinks the initial chips are not to much to be loose until now I even don't understand if I can adopt the @Collin Moshman STT style to 180 man for example or not.

      Thanks
  • 13 replies
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      In 180 mans there is such long journey to moneys that in early phase its best to play for cEV. Not necessarily saying that one should make every play that show profit in chips as field is likely relatively soft in micro/small stake games at least.

      In 9man there is always ICM to consider so that should be one big difference. Also ICM in moneys and close to it are often stronger in stt games compared to mtt ones.

      I have not read his book so cant comment on what it includes.
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,219
      Hey RuiVieira78,

      Another important concept in 45-180s is The Principle of Diminishing Chip Value. This means that chips lost in the early stages have much more value than the equivalent amount of chips won.

      Collin advocates only playing KK+, AK and occasionally QQ in the early stages of MTSnGs.

      Regards

      Laz
    • RuiVieira78
      RuiVieira78
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2013 Posts: 411
      Yes.
      I'm reading his book and he says in loose table UTG limp QQ hoping be raised.

      Well my doubt is if that kind of techniques are in STT 9man or If I can adopt it to a Sng 180man for example.

      Of course they are both SnG but 9 players are not the same as 180

      So thats my doubt. Can I adopt his description in book of Sng 9man in 180 ?

      Edited: Btw you wrote : " Another important concept in 45-180s is The Principle of Diminishing Chip Value. "
      One more time the video talks about SnG 9man
      The 180man looks like more a MTT am I wrong?


      Edited: The number of chips in a SNG and their value are not directly correlated, and chips which can be obtained in a SNG are not necessarily worth as much as ones you already have. This means that doubling your stack does not automatically double its value; this depends on the payout structure of the given SNG.

      Is not 180man include here ?? the prize structure is a little different so double the stack is not good?

      Sorry for all these edits but I'm trying to understand and get some answers with the right people

      Thanks again
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Originally posted by Lazza61
      Collin advocates only playing KK+, AK and occasionally QQ in the early stages of MTSnGs.
      That sounds pretty hilarious! Hopefully this is some sort of special situation and not about opening ranges :)
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Originally posted by Lazza61
      Another important concept in 45-180s is The Principle of Diminishing Chip Value. This means that chips lost in the early stages have much more value than the equivalent amount of chips won.
      Also you are referring into stt sng article. In start of mttsng one should play for cEV mostly. Again does not mean that you necessarily want to go for some 5bet bluff that you estimate to be marginally profitable.
    • evolv87
      evolv87
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 114
      Originally posted by ghaleon
      Originally posted by Lazza61
      Collin advocates only playing KK+, AK and occasionally QQ in the early stages of MTSnGs.
      That sounds pretty hilarious! Hopefully this is some sort of special situation and not about opening ranges :)
      Heh I think this is in reference to what hands you should be willing to stack off with in the early game. Otherwise this is a nittier opening range than Lederer :f_eek:
    • RuiVieira78
      RuiVieira78
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2013 Posts: 411
      So let me see if I understand.

      His book is "almost" or even 100% for STT ?

      In 180man looser table with very limpers or raisers with don't limp QQ or KK in UTG like he describes in his book in STT early stage ?
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Personally I dont use limping from UTG. Some regs do, but I dont see that much point in it. In soft tables limp set mining with small to medium pockets can be ok, but versus regs its problematic as they tend to put you on such hands easily.

      I send message to Moshman himself. He is probably best one to answer on content in his book :)
    • RuiVieira78
      RuiVieira78
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2013 Posts: 411
      Ok right.

      I mean not limp LP but as we know some tables are very loose get a lot of calls or raises
      I think its that he is trying to describe in LOW BLINDS Open limp in UTG with QQ or even KK

      So please tell me what was the answer / feedback from him

      Thanks again
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 407
      Thanks to Ghaleon for letting me know about this thread.

      Originally posted by Lazza61

      Collin advocates only playing KK+, AK and occasionally QQ in the early stages of MTSnGs.

      KK+ is too loose, normally I would only open AA+, and even then sometimes fold if not holding the ace of spades. :D

      (Kidding of course.)

      SNG strategy is a book on 9man SNG. Ranges in today's games are much looser. I also no longer openlimp any hands during low blinds, except occasionally from the small blind into certain regs and very loose-passive players in the big blind.

      I've been thinking about writing an update to this book, since while the fundamentals are still correct (i.e. ICM, chips decline in value, etc), much of the specific advice is a lot less applicable today than it was when I wrote it as games continually evolve.
    • RuiVieira
      RuiVieira
      Basic
      Joined: 02.12.2013 Posts: 1
      Hi Collin

      Is a pleasure have an answer from you!

      I started about a week ago reading the book and as I always was negative in STT I started to open limp in utg KK or QQ as you said in book ahahahah

      So I have to forget that.
      Yes you should if you have time to update the book I really like the way you explain the things very easy to understand.

      Also you should add some 180man explanation in "new book"

      I dont know If I read in the book but cant remember so I ask here.. the book STT is -regular- or -turbo- ?

      All STT is almost ICM-BASED right?
      Turbo or Regular am I right?
    • RuiVieira78
      RuiVieira78
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2013 Posts: 411
      Btw I looked to my avatar and saw -basic- I was thinking what happened and now after trying to understand what happened I answer that post in other browser and it seems that browser saved login I maybe registered again by mistake??

      Well I don't know how can I solve that.


      So lets start again:

      Hi Collin

      Is a pleasure have an answer from you!

      I started about a week ago reading the book and as I always was negative in STT I started to open limp in utg KK or QQ as you said in book ahahahah

      So I have to forget that.
      Yes you should if you have time to update the book I really like the way you explain the things very easy to understand.

      Also you should add some 180man explanation in "new book"

      I dont know If I read in the book but cant remember so I ask here.. the book STT is -regular- or -turbo- ?

      All STT is almost ICM-BASED right?
      Turbo or Regular am I right?
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,219
      Originally posted by CollinMoshman
      Thanks to Ghaleon for letting me know about this thread.

      Originally posted by Lazza61

      Collin advocates only playing KK+, AK and occasionally QQ in the early stages of MTSnGs.

      KK+ is too loose, normally I would only open AA+, and even then sometimes fold if not holding the ace of spades. :D

      (Kidding of course.)

      Nah. I'd fold AA 80% of the time to a 3Bet. :f_biggrin: