-42 buyin downswing NL10

    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=graph2pr7.jpg

      Is this normal? I'm down 42 buyins using SSS on NL10 over 12000 hands. I've had some smaller downswings before, but 42 buyins? Im playing around 9-14 tables at a time using stats. I've gone from 110 to 26 dollars in 4 days, if this downswing continues I'm soon down at 0. And this last day has been insane, -16ptbb/100 over 1000 hands.

      I'm losing with higher PPs vs lower PPs preflop allin, people calling my c-bets when I've missed with lowest pair on the table, people folding to my c-bets when I've hit, people hitting 5 or 3 outers when we're allin on the flop, running into aces with kings, losing way more coinflips than I win and so on.

      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Button ($6)
      Hero (SB) ($2)
      BB ($17.65)
      UTG ($11.65)
      MP1 ($4.60)
      MP2 ($3.35)
      CO ($13.65)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q
      1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Button calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.60, Button calls $0.60

      Flop: ($2.50) A, 8, 7 (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.50, MP1 raises to $3.80 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70 (All-In)

      Turn: ($4.90) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

      River: ($4.90) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

      Total pot: $4.90 | Rake: $0.20

      Results in white below:
      Hero had A, Q (one pair, Aces).
      MP1 had 9, A (two pair, Aces and nines).
      Outcome: MP1 won $4.70

      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      UTG ($11.05)
      Hero (MP1) ($2.25)
      MP2 ($0.65)
      CO ($7.50)
      Button ($6.45)
      SB ($10)
      BB ($17)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, MP2 raises to $0.65 (All-In), CO calls $0.65, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25

      Flop: ($2.10) 7, K, 10 (3 players, 1 all-in)
      Hero bets $1.60 (All-In), CO calls $1.60

      Turn: ($5.30) J (3 players, 2 all-in)

      River: ($5.30) Q (3 players, 2 all-in)

      Total pot: $5.30 | Rake: $0.25

      Results in white below:
      Hero had Q, Q (three of a kind, Queens).
      MP2 mucked 2, 2 (one pair, twos).
      CO had 9, 10 (straight, King high).
      Outcome: CO won $5.05


      These kind of hands just happens all the time, I really hope this downswing will end soon.
  • 26 replies
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      I'm afraid 42 buyins is just too much , you have 12k hands so posting your stats would be nice :)

      btw, i don't know if you could raise the second hand or if you were forced to just call with QQ , those 2 hands were sick
    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92



      These are my stats over 37000 hands or so.

      I couldn't raise more on the second hand I posted, I could only call his allin.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      well you are not playing too loose , that's for sure. Lets wait for some experienced players to look at the other stats. My personal stats are quite similar, a little bit looser and with higher AF , but not by much.

      post more hands on the sample forum maybe?
    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      Yea I should post some hands on the sample hand forums.

      I think im losing too much money on c-bets when I've missed vs 1 opponent, or maybe I've just been unlucky with my c-bets these last days.
      Maybe that silver article about c-bets for advanced players is good, I should go read it.

      Not my day today

      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      BB ($9)
      UTG ($9.90)
      UTG+1 ($9.30)
      MP1 ($10)
      MP2 ($10.15)
      MP3 ($29.25)
      CO ($10.10)
      Button ($2.90)
      Hero (SB) ($2)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
      6 folds, Button calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.10) 7, 10, 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.70, Button calls $0.70

      Turn: ($2.50) 7 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.80 (All-In), Button calls $0.80

      River: ($4.10) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $4.10 | Rake: $0.20

      Results in white below:
      Button had 9, J (straight, Jack high).
      Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and sevens).
      Outcome: Button won $3.90



      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      BB ($13.25)
      UTG ($8.70)
      Hero (UTG+1) ($2)
      MP1 ($13.40)
      MP2 ($13.45)
      MP3 ($10.10)
      CO ($10)
      Button ($6.80)
      SB ($1.70)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A
      UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 7 folds, UTG calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.25) 6, 6, J (2 players)
      UTG bets $0.60, Hero raises to $1.50 (All-In), UTG calls $0.90

      Turn: ($4.25) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: ($4.25) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0.20

      Results in white below:
      UTG had 5, 5 (full house, fives over sixes).
      Hero mucked A, A (two pair, Aces and sixes).
      Outcome: UTG won $4.05



      I don't think I've done a single suckout today :/
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      wow that is some massive downswing.
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Playing less tables is 1 thing that will help for sure
    • Ruleza
      Ruleza
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2008 Posts: 1,787
      Play 9 tables max. Dont rely too heavy on stats at NL10. Loosen up. Ideal stats would be 9/8/6 imo. Your attack to steal looks too low if you are using stats. When you cbet, try to bet only 2/3 of the pot.

      Try to keep these tips in mind while playing and I'm sure you will improve.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      You definately have leaks. I think you haven't understood the principle of Cbetting right now - if the c-bet is more than 40% of your stack (50% is ok too) then you need to push all in. Even when you missed.

      For example:
      The KK hand. Push flop.

      The QQ hand. Why call preflop? Just push over the top of MP2 and make CO pay for trying to suck out on you.

      The AQ hand. What's with the 50 cent bet here? Betting small just to get called is the best way to get sucked out on. The pot is 2.50, you have around 1.20 left. Push!!

      Visit some coachings and reread some articles and try again, try to get used to these new things with fewer tables though.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Wow, you're incredibly tight! 5/5 with a 10% attempt to steal. Thats just incredible. You really raising all the hands you should?

      I think of myself as being tight, I play more advanced SSS with steals and isolationraises incorporated into my play (Not much Limping) Some of my stats;

    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      9/8/6? then i'm a nit even SSS :D

      my stats here , I don't think that being too tight is that much of a problem on nl10 ( well, not to lose 42 bi ). the low AF may indeed be a problem

    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      Thanks for the replies guys

      I thought stealing on nl10 wasn't a good idea, but I'll try to do it more, I'll also try to loosen up abit.

      The AQ was badly played indeed, no idea why I only bet 50 cents there instead of pushing.
      On the QQ hand I couldn't raise for some reason, I could only call the shortstackers allin.

      KK hand: 1.1 dollar pot, 1.5 dollar left, the c-bet is around 48% of my stack, but I'll push next time since it was so close.

      I've always c-betted allin if the raise was more than 50% of my stack, but I could try pushing if it's more than 40% of my stack. I tried playing nine tables last night and it worked out well, won around 7 buyins on pokerstars and 150 SEK on a swedish site which equals around 20 dollars. The swedish site is insane, the medium pot on a few tables last night were 100 big blinds, and you could choose to buyin with 20 to 200 big blinds, perfect for shortstacking.

      A question about low pocket-pairs, if you raise pf with 77 from the button and then get a board like 4-8-Q, does your hand count as useless on that board so I should bet-fold and fold to a raise? If I dont push immediately because my stack is too small.
    • exorcism
      exorcism
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 159
      Originally posted by Magulina

      A question about low pocket-pairs, if you raise pf with 77 from the button and then get a board like 4-8-Q, does your hand count as useless on that board so I should bet-fold and fold to a raise? If I dont push immediately because my stack is too small.
      if you remain with just one opponent, always cbet or shove directly if a cbet commits too much of your stack.
    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      Yea, but what if the pot is 90 cent, I have 1.4 dollars left and c-bet 60 cent, then get reraised allin, do I fold or call? And what if he just calls my bet, should I then bet on the turn or check/fold?
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Originally posted by Magulina
      The swedish site is insane, the medium pot on a few tables last night were 100 big blinds, and you could choose to buyin with 20 to 200 big blinds, perfect for shortstacking.
      Which site is this? :o
    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      Svenska spel

      http://svenskaspel.se/p4.aspx?pageid=3
    • exorcism
      exorcism
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 159
      Originally posted by Magulina
      Yea, but what if the pot is 90 cent, I have 1.4 dollars left and c-bet 60 cent, then get reraised allin, do I fold or call? And what if he just calls my bet, should I then bet on the turn or check/fold?
      If he calls your bet, play check fold afterwards, and if you get reraised you fold.


      This is all mentioned in the articles on postflop play. Give them another read.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/824/6/#h1_6
    • Magulina
      Magulina
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 92
      Thanks, I should really reread the articles. But too bad theres almost always an overcard when you've got low pocket-pairs :/
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Stop playing SSS. Not only it’s high variance, but it’s also the most boring type of poker. If you had this downswing at NL10 where there are many donks just imagine what will happen at higher limits where the quality of players is much better. I played SSS last spring and I stopped playing it after a 14 buy-in downswing at NL25. Imo, it doesn’t deserve to play SSS at this limit where there are a lot of bad players. You don’t have to be a very good poker player to beat NL10 playing BSS. I think a set miner can easily beat NL10 and NL25.
    • exorcism
      exorcism
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 159
      SSS is still a good way to build up your BR since if you start with just 50$ from PS you don't really have a proper BR for BSS on NL10, not even for NL4 (offered on some sites).

      one could also start playing 1$SnG's with the starting BR from PS.


      You shouldn't consider the number of bad players to be a bad thing! No freakin way... They are our bread and butter. Even if they get lucky, we are the winners in the long run.

      Anyway, Magulina... stick to whatever type of game you are comfortable with and grind it out until you have a proper BR to try different things and expand :)

      Best of luck!
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