Live game: Really loose players

    • shbcristiRNMD
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 2
      Ok, so last night I was playing in a live table against 5 other players, blinds .50/1€, around 800€ on the table.
      I had this discussion with other players, but some of them don't agree with my decision because most of them are internet players and don't understand the reason behind my play.
      The players on my table would call big bets pre-flop just for the pot even with rags (510o, j3o, etc.) just to see a flop, so a 20-80€ pot pre-flop would be expected from time to time even w/o pocket pairs. I bought in for 25€, built it up to 90, had my ups and downs but I was still winning with an open range (playing all suited-connectors, small/middle pocket pairs, top pairs on board, etc.) basically all hands that could see a flop and do well. Then this happens:

      I have 46 of spades in the BB, the player UTG raises to 5€ (it was kind of the usual), the other players call and since it was 4€ more I call too.
      Flop comes: Qs Js 10s, surpise: I have a flush.
      Small blind checks, I check, pre-flop aggressor bets 10€. All the players fold to the small blind who raises to 25€ (with ~60 more behind). Now... this player was really aggressive and the chances of her having a bigger flush was really slim, so I raised all in (~90€). Original raiser folds and she calls.
      She shows Ks, Qh, so there's no way she was going to fold anyways.
      Turn comes 9s, River 2s, so she turns a straight flush (well, a bigger flush anyways) and I lost it all.

      In my opinion I played quite good and I just got unlucky. I opened my range a little bit to adjust, and suited-connectors are always good in a cash game, but a grinder who plays 1/2 and 5/10 tables really got me mad by saying: you should have folded the hand to begin with. Now... the guy is quite good, online, but we played a couple of times live and he ain't no special player.
      I would like to know if, in your opinion, widening my range and especially playing small suited-connectors is the right play in that situation or if you would have played the hand/the table differently. Thanks.
  • 8 replies
    • bradomurder
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      I would probably call with 46s there but just for fun, it's -EV. Being OOP I think you really need something like 98s. Something that can flop top pair occasionally and isn't always going to be on the bad end of every cooler. Any 2pair/flush/straight situation you're gonna have the bad end.

      Internet poker isn't really different to live poker inherently. It's just that in live poker it is possible to have a bigger edge because of physical tells etc so you can be a bit looser IF you have a bigger edge. 46s OOP in a multiway pot is way too loose to be profitable, I don't think I would ever come across a table where that would be good
    • GingerKid
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,506
      Vs good players low SC are not playing good multiway especially OOP, because when you have a draw you will have to call big bets in big pots, and your draw is diminated. Also when you hit flush you have less implieds.

      If table is so loose i would play as you described. You just need to hit strong hand and you have huge implieds.
    • SRwtf
      Joined: 19.03.2014 Posts: 53
      you could've called to see if another spade hits you on the turn. Why not bro?
      I mean you know you're drawing dead a lot more than 50%+ of the times a fourth spade hits the board in this kinda situation.
      So I think you're range is very live game compatible (well ok except for the call pf, but if it's a standard raise happening every round maybe then it makes more sense. BUT, 64s is still too weak)
      If you wanna grind those tables dry I think folding low suited gappers like that against a raise is something you should get accustomed to - most of the times you are just not going to hit something too good.
      And even if you do, man, a 6 high flush isn't what you wanna play with so much.
      Say you're on a flushdraw. let's say it's:

      A :spade: 9 :spade: 7 :heart:

      and you hold 6 :spade: 4 :spade:

      even tho you have a flushdraw it's far from being the one to the nuts.
      I think the only way you can feel kinda safe with this hand is the next card is a blank and then the other one is a spade - 'cause if the pot gets too big you can't easily get away from it and a 4th spade on the river would be fatal.

      The thing is: you hit a spade on the turn: you can be beaten by anyone holding a K :spade: -T :spade: and 8 :spade: would be dangerous, I don't think someone withan 8/7 spade would play this too aggressively tho but you never know what happens.
      So even if a spade hits some opponents will have a redraw there and you don't want to be up against a big field.
      BUT: can you bet that hard with 6/4 risking a raise from any good Ax hand to clear the field? And if you don't hit a spade? You check/fold or what?
      See the thing is: suited connectors/gappers prefer big fields - but in this case a big field would be harmful.
      If the turn is a blank to you... then you'll have to call another Bet which might result in nothing or maybe the second best hand. But the second scenario sounds more friendly for me in any ways!

      TL;DR imo you can play these hands but only if it's as good as for free.
      I had this range thing, too, since I have kinda loose players on our local tables when we play SNGs. But hands like these I consider trash and I don't play them unless it's in the BB against no raise/minraise (while the blinds are still low) or against 2 opponents/heads up.

      Keep it up tho!
    • KrisRukov
      Joined: 26.06.2010 Posts: 89
      hi , a few things makes me worried :
      - this is advanced section and you write T5 as 510 ( not only the letter you wrote the lower card 1st )
      - you bought for 25bb !?! wtf
      - you open your range to adjust and in lose game this is that you don`t do OOP
      - you don`t actually explain the hand right ( the other players call - how many other players ?!?! , how much is the pot !?!?! )

      which tells me you are really far from advanced ( i don`t mean to offend you )
      with that said , 1st of all 64s OOP is not a hand i will invest any money even on 5-6-7:1 , and if i do on 7-8:1 i will look for nuts straight ( ~0.7% ) or trips ( ~10% ) , maybe multydraw.
      why ? because it is a trouble situation. let me put it that way and you tell me how does it sounds to you :
      - i am about to play in a multyway pot with a low SPR with less than a 100bb active stack OOP with 64s

      how does it sound ?

      loosening up in a loose game is not what you do !
    • GingerKid
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,506
    • KrisRukov
      Joined: 26.06.2010 Posts: 89
      your statement suggest really low respect for : the forum , the game , the users
      yes i do think advanced forum should be for advanced questions only
      I am not 6 anymore :) if it says advanced - it should be advanced.
      and btw i did provide an advice and i will provide another

      pps. GingerKid try growing up. Your "attack" against me lack any kind of logic - "If pokerstrategy allows beginners to post in advanced section, then I don't see why he wouldn't post it" - because we are adults and we can read and think ( at least we should be able to ). You are right i don`t have to read if i think its a noob Q , but here is the catch - i dint know it is a noob question before i read it - so as i said - no logic at all ... gg
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,828
      Hi, guys,
      At this point, the forum is open to all.

      Please keep the conversation cordial, in accordance with our forum principles.

      In particular, the English forums host many people whose knowledge of English is weak, so please make allowances for that.

      Also, many people who have played poker for years may well be experienced poker players, but "noobs" when it comes to online poker, forum etiquette and so on.

      The community works best when we all support one another.

    • GingerKid
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,506