modern day squeeze sizing

    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      Hey, I'm really curious about the current proper squeeze sizes at 100bb stacks. It used to be 3x + 1x per caller IP and 4x OOP, but nowadays I see anything from 2.1x to 3x IP and 2.3x to 4x OP.
      I can't really understand how OOP squeeze sizes got so small, is it correct to go squeeze like 14bb vs 3x open + 2 caller ? feels too low.
  • 8 replies
    • rap1dw1n3r
      rap1dw1n3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2009 Posts: 266
      just pot it and youll be fine most of the time at lower limits I think
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      anyone else ? :D
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      Are you squeezing to get a couple of loose cannons to fold their crap, and thus scoop the pot?

      Or would you rather they call (or raise) your monster?

      If you are squeezing wide how will you hand the 4Bet? How often have you squoze previously?

      Lots of variables in this equation.
      I squeeze just 2x the last bet, or 4.5x (sometimes 5x) the last bet in both situations, but a LOT depends on the tendencies of the original raiser and caller(s) so I can't really answer the question.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      Squeezes of 8-10% range can't really be called monsters.

      2x last bet or 5x last bet ? I'm talking about preflop squeezes, dont get what you mean by last bet.

      How big is the difference for you in BB size vs lets say raiser + 2callers with AA or with AQ/AJs ? I just see lots of regs treating AJ AQ as the nuts and squeezing less OOP than my standard IP squeeze size. for example squeeze 10bb OOP vs 2players AJo, I'd make that at least 13-14bb.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      Originally posted by OZSA
      2x last bet or 5x last bet ? I'm talking about preflop squeezes, dont get what you mean by last bet.
      For example:
      MP opens 3BB
      CO flat calls.

      The "last bet" is 3BB
      If I want to provoke one of them to shove (I hold AA KK) I might tease with 6BB (2x last bet)
      If I'm confident I'll get a call I might squeeze with 15BB (5x last bet) with the same hands.

      If I am bluffing (AJo, AQo) I might do the 6BB play if I'm confident I'll get folds, or the larger bet if I think they're really spewy and my AJ-AQ hand is actually ahead.

      So the condensed version:
      My squeeze bet size depends who I'm squeezing against.
      If there is a nit involved, I'm folding the AJ/AQ stuff.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      so you 2x 3bet squeeze against 2players with nuts ?
      meaning u 3bet less than a normal 3bet size which is 2.2-2.5x IP, 3-3.5x OOP.

      did i read this right? if so, on what limits might i ask
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      I think I'm giving a false impression. I am not a coach, nor even an "expert".
      I'm telling you what I do. I asked a similar question a while back and got an answer similar to what I'm telling you.

      I have played up to 25NL, I'm currently playing 5NL speed, and 2NL when I feel like it -- or rather when I don't feel like playing 5NL (too tired or whatever).

      There is no set "sizing". Choose the sizing that will accomplish your goal.
      To do that you must know what your goal is, and you should have a reasonable idea what to expect from your opponents.

      I gave you a range of sizes that I use, and the situations I use them in.

      so you 2x 3bet squeeze against 2players with nuts ?
      Yes, when it seems to suit the situation.

      If you are looking for a "one size fits all" squeezing bet size, pick something medium and go with it.

      An example:
      I'm OOP. I squeezed 5x the opening raise.
      I expected calls from stuff like AK - AJ and 4Bets from JJ+, and folds from almost everything else. Depending on stats I *might* fold to a 4Bet shove, but it would be very rare. Since I'm not going to fold to a 4Bet (usually) the larger size means a larger pot.

      Full Tilt - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: $3.01 (VPIP: 26.22, PFR: 10.67, 3Bet Preflop: 3.41, Hands: 229)
      MP: $2.06 (VPIP: 20.83, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 25)
      CO: $0.67 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 16)
      BTN: $2.07 (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 25)
      SB: $2.42 (VPIP: 24.33, PFR: 17.49, 3Bet Preflop: 5.21, Hands: 270)
      Hero (BB): $3.98

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has T:club: T:spade:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $0.07, fold, SB calls $0.06, Hero raises to $0.37, CO calls $0.30, fold

      Flop: ($0.81, 2 players) 7:club: 4:club: 2:spade:
      Hero bets $0.82, CO calls $0.30 and is all-in

      Turn: ($1.41, 2 players) 7:spade:

      River: ($1.41, 2 players) 2:club:

      Hero shows T:club: T:spade: (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens) (Pre 72%, Flop 88%, Turn 93%)
      CO shows 9:heart: K:spade: (Two Pair, Sevens and Twos) (Pre 28%, Flop 12%, Turn 7%)
      Hero wins $1.34


      Here is a 3x squeeze (9BB) with KK I wanted them in the pot. I interpreted their wimpy open raise and call as speculative hands, and I wanted to entice them to take a chance.
      Didn't work. I'm happy anyway -- at least they didn't suck out :coolface:
      Full Tilt - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $2.01 (VPIP: 32.08, PFR: 15.09, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 53)
      UTG: $2.00 (VPIP: 9.19, PFR: 5.41, 3Bet Preflop: 1.52, Hands: 190)
      MP: $1.05 (VPIP: 13.23, PFR: 10.58, 3Bet Preflop: 13.04, Hands: 192)
      CO: $2.51 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
      BTN: $0.79 (VPIP: 33.75, PFR: 22.50, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 83)
      Hero (SB): $5.13

      Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K:heart: K:diamond:

      fold, MP raises to $0.05, CO calls $0.05, fold, Hero raises to $0.18, fold, fold, fold

      Hero wins $0.00
      Hero wins $0.17


      [Edit: I just ran across some notes I had taken a while ago.
      They say:
      Squeeze size:
      If Raise/Call is 2BB squeeze 7BB
      If Raise/Call is 2.5BB squeeze 9BB
      If Raise/Call is >=3BB squeeze 11BB

      I had forgotten about that. I don't base my squeeze size purely on raise size, but it might work for you.]



      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • OZSA
      OZSA
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      alright, thanks for the reply