Please give your comments !!!!

    • pjerter
      pjerter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2011 Posts: 477


      Ok i must loosen up i am working on that but is there still a chance to become a winning player on fixed limit short handed

      I played also 250khands on the old betfair client
      Ipoker almost 110 k hands
      50k on party

      this is a graph from last month with these stats Vpip 28.1 Pfr 23 3Bet 11.7 wtsd 37
      on 0.02/0.04 0.05/0.10 stakes 11128 hands profit 0.03 that can be better :f_eek:



      Please give me your comments on my stats and let me now if i must go on for another year or maby to find a new hobby


      Thanks you all
  • 25 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Hi, pjerter
      You seem to fold a lot to steals, which is odd, because your VPIP & PFR are fairly high.
      If you're not defending your blinds much, what hands are you playing from what positions?

      Try posting HM2's position report. Include steal stats, resteal and fold to steal.
      The winnings graph doesn't tell a lot. Try posting the same graph with showdown and non-showdown lines.

      Also, 11k hands is not really a large enough sample to tell for sure what is happening.

      And finally,
      Ok i must loosen up i am working on that
      Try tightening up from EP, MP and maybe even CO, and steal a little more from BTN -- but to do that you must be able to play a strong post-flop game.

      You're going to bleed cash if you start stealing only to find villains flat you then blow you off the post by post-flop aggression.

      Best of luck,
      VS
    • pjerter
      pjerter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2011 Posts: 477
      hello VorpalF2F

      Thanks for your reply i have posted a new HM2's position report.



      And another graph of last month



      try to play looser is not the right move than?
    • kavboj84
      kavboj84
      Gold
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 2,004
      My advice would be that dont worry too much about stats, stats really depend on whom you play against. For ex VorpalF2F mentioned that your fold too much on the BB, now you cant judge that only by fold to steal value, if you play on stake like 0.02/0.04 and you seat select so that you always sit on typical calling stations, who raise only like top 5-10-15%, then its absolutely viable to fold a lot of hands on the BB.

      These stats get meaning only if you know what kind of context you need to interpret them in, othewise you cant tell right from wrong.

      If you'd like to improve your play, concentrate on analysing your own and your opponents play, taking notes, working out the proper counterstrategy and try to make the adjustments at the tables.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Hi, pjerter
      Sorry, I failed to notice on the first time through that you are playing fixed limit. :facepalm:

      I think that the principles hold though.
      Here are your vpip/pfr by position:

      EP: 15/14
      MP: 19/18
      CO: 24/22
      BTN: 27/25
      SB: 27/16
      BB: 22/8

      This is a 15% range:
      22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+

      Isn't that a wee bit too wide even in FL?

      My thoughts would be fold weak pocket pairs in EP, and some of the weaker aces and kings, and try stealing a bit more from later positions.
      Is it possible to table select a bit? If to try to avoid tables with people on your left who defend a lot. If you can keep tight players on your left, you can do well stealing their blinds.

      Your WTSD seems high to me, but your W$SD is nice and high, so I'm guessing that it is normal for FL, and I'm guessing that your post-flop play is OK.

      Cheers,
      VS

      I'm curious to hear what the FL experts have to say.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      Vorpal gave these numbers (VPIP/PFR):
      EP: 15/14
      MP: 19/18
      CO: 24/22
      BTN: 27/25
      SB: 27/16
      BB: 22/8
      Are these really correct? The pictures in the OP are gone...

      Supposing the numbers are correct, yes, it is virtually impossible to win even at the smallest stakes. You don't play enough hands to be able to pay for the automatic blinds loss. Opening 27/25 on the button is ridiculously low. Likewise for CO and SB. (I have played you. You are marked red. I prefer to sit to the right of you. That way I have an empty chair there and get to play button twice per orbit. If you fight back, I'll snap fold and don't pay you off. Those are the drawbacks of being too tight.)

      But kav has a point too. If you don't play the hands you do play well, then playing more hands isn't the whole solution. Post hands in the forums.
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      pjerter give me a pm on skype soon and we can talk a bit more about this. Will you please move your pictures to imgur not tinypic. Id really love to get my hands on those pictures since they are now deleted. anyway what kav and yohan says are correct. you play too tight which ive told you millions of times.
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Hi, pjerter
      Sorry, I failed to notice on the first time through that you are playing fixed limit. :facepalm:

      I think that the principles hold though.
      Here are your vpip/pfr by position:

      EP: 15/14
      MP: 19/18
      CO: 24/22
      BTN: 27/25
      SB: 27/16
      BB: 22/8

      This is a 15% range:
      22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+

      Isn't that a wee bit too wide even in FL?

      My thoughts would be fold weak pocket pairs in EP, and some of the weaker aces and kings, and try stealing a bit more from later positions.
      Is it possible to table select a bit? If to try to avoid tables with people on your left who defend a lot. If you can keep tight players on your left, you can do well stealing their blinds.

      Your WTSD seems high to me, but your W$SD is nice and high, so I'm guessing that it is normal for FL, and I'm guessing that your post-flop play is OK.

      Cheers,
      VS

      I'm curious to hear what the FL experts have to say.
      too tight !! :D if i could i would instantly put pjerter on something like 35/25/15 stats vpip/pfr/3bet. being tight is as yohan says a recipe for disaster you can't win being too tight because people play tons of hands more and will crush you as you won't be able to fight back . yohan said something about you'll lose to the blinds which imo is absolutely true.

      and fyi that 15% range is tighter than I personally play :P but not by much though.

      heres my open per pos just a comparison: Im by far not the best FL player ever but i do consistantly win at the micros.

      EP:22%/21%
      MP: 24%/23%
      CO: 29%/28%
      BTN:35%/32%
      SB: 40%/ 25%

      and im sad that my BTN and SB is that low :(
    • pjerter
      pjerter
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2011 Posts: 477
      Hello thanks for taking some time all

      here is a new graph from the date 1-05-2014 thats the date i talk for the first time to avataren on skype
      And yes he said i must loosen up i think i am on the right way but still tiht i think

      In the last graph there was a lot of hands where i played full ring they are out now
      and yes i make misstakes postflop i now for sure

      I will be posting hands if my status is silver again

      I pm you avataren

      the only note on you YohanN7 is PS member :f_biggrin:

      Thans for your advice kavboj84




    • kavboj84
      kavboj84
      Gold
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 2,004
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Hi, pjerter
      Sorry, I failed to notice on the first time through that you are playing fixed limit. :facepalm:

      I think that the principles hold though.
      Here are your vpip/pfr by position:

      EP: 15/14
      MP: 19/18
      CO: 24/22
      BTN: 27/25
      SB: 27/16
      BB: 22/8

      This is a 15% range:
      22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+

      Isn't that a wee bit too wide even in FL?

      My thoughts would be fold weak pocket pairs in EP, and some of the weaker aces and kings, and try stealing a bit more from later positions.
      Is it possible to table select a bit? If to try to avoid tables with people on your left who defend a lot. If you can keep tight players on your left, you can do well stealing their blinds.

      Your WTSD seems high to me, but your W$SD is nice and high, so I'm guessing that it is normal for FL, and I'm guessing that your post-flop play is OK.

      Cheers,
      VS

      I'm curious to hear what the FL experts have to say.
      too tight !! :D if i could i would instantly put pjerter on something like 35/25/15 stats vpip/pfr/3bet. being tight is as yohan says a recipe for disaster you can't win being too tight because people play tons of hands more and will crush you as you won't be able to fight back . yohan said something about you'll lose to the blinds which imo is absolutely true.

      and fyi that 15% range is tighter than I personally play :P but not by much though.

      heres my open per pos just a comparison: Im by far not the best FL player ever but i do consistantly win at the micros.

      EP:22%/21%
      MP: 24%/23%
      CO: 29%/28%
      BTN:35%/32%
      SB: 40%/ 25%

      and im sad that my BTN and SB is that low :(
      Those aren't opening %, he posted VPIP/PFR per position. This is naturally tighter since it counts every situation that occures, while opening happens only when everyone before you folds.

      And I don't think its true that you cant win with tight ranges, especially on stars micros fool pond.

      Here are my stats from the days when I played those limits on stars:



      Classical silver charts TAG style, even tighter than what pjeter posted.
    • pcbeem
      pcbeem
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 18,431
      I said it to you before on the Dutch forum, maybe SH just isn't your game :) .

      I know that you tried FR in the past with nice figures.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      @pjerter, @kav. Yes, I screwed up when I read the numbers, my bad.
      But here is a problem: Notice that you play as many hands from the SB as from the BU. This can't be right.
    • kavboj84
      kavboj84
      Gold
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 2,004
      Why couldn't it be ?
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      Position. The numbers are probably okay if the SB is completed a lot in limped pots (which does happen at the micros), but if there's a lot of flatting of raises, then it is definitely bad. But perhaps I'm just confusing the numbers again. I'd like to see the OP's RFI/pos because that's the numbers that can tell whether it's okay or too tight. Like you kav, I don't believe entirely in the idea of "loosening up" just to adjust stats. But, indeed, opens can be too tight, and here we have never really agreed.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      For the record, my RFI/pos:
      • UTG 16%
      • HJ 21%
      • CO 29%
      • BU 45%
      • SB 58%
      • BB 19%

      I am doing 2.4BB/100 over 100k hands with which I am not happy. Having had stretches of 30k hands with 4BB/100, I'm pretty sure it is possible, though not easy, to beat these levels with 6-8BB/100. Unfortunately, there are 30k stretches with 1BB/100 too. I'm in one right now, but 30k hands is too much to blame on variance. Just not playing well, but have no idea what is wrong.
    • kavboj84
      kavboj84
      Gold
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 2,004
      Yes you are prolly confusing the numbers, as per hand count every position should be equal as you get 1/6th of all hands in each position ~120k hands = 20k per position. The reason why later positions have higher handcount is that the tables arent 6-max all the time and in these cases later positions are played more fequently. As per VPIP the BU-s VPIP is higher than SB-s simply because its a more profitable position.

      BTW how can you raise 19% from the BB ? You raise vs yourself ?:f_biggrin:
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by kavboj84
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Hi, pjerter
      Sorry, I failed to notice on the first time through that you are playing fixed limit. :facepalm:

      I think that the principles hold though.
      Here are your vpip/pfr by position:

      EP: 15/14
      MP: 19/18
      CO: 24/22
      BTN: 27/25
      SB: 27/16
      BB: 22/8

      This is a 15% range:
      22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+

      Isn't that a wee bit too wide even in FL?

      My thoughts would be fold weak pocket pairs in EP, and some of the weaker aces and kings, and try stealing a bit more from later positions.
      Is it possible to table select a bit? If to try to avoid tables with people on your left who defend a lot. If you can keep tight players on your left, you can do well stealing their blinds.

      Your WTSD seems high to me, but your W$SD is nice and high, so I'm guessing that it is normal for FL, and I'm guessing that your post-flop play is OK.

      Cheers,
      VS

      I'm curious to hear what the FL experts have to say.
      too tight !! :D if i could i would instantly put pjerter on something like 35/25/15 stats vpip/pfr/3bet. being tight is as yohan says a recipe for disaster you can't win being too tight because people play tons of hands more and will crush you as you won't be able to fight back . yohan said something about you'll lose to the blinds which imo is absolutely true.

      and fyi that 15% range is tighter than I personally play :P but not by much though.

      heres my open per pos just a comparison: Im by far not the best FL player ever but i do consistantly win at the micros.

      EP:22%/21%
      MP: 24%/23%
      CO: 29%/28%
      BTN:35%/32%
      SB: 40%/ 25%

      and im sad that my BTN and SB is that low :(
      Those aren't opening %, he posted VPIP/PFR per position. This is naturally tighter since it counts every situation that occures, while opening happens only when everyone before you folds.

      And I don't think its true that you cant win with tight ranges, especially on stars micros fool pond.

      Here are my stats from the days when I played those limits on stars:



      Classical silver charts TAG style, even tighter than what pjeter posted.
      Those are my vpip/pfr i may have misunderstood something.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      Originally posted by kavboj84
      Yes you are prolly confusing the numbers, as per hand count every position should be equal as you get 1/6th of all hands in each position ~120k hands = 20k per position. The reason why later positions have higher handcount is that the tables arent 6-max all the time and in these cases later positions are played more fequently. As per VPIP the BU-s VPIP is higher than SB-s simply because its a more profitable position.

      BTW how can you raise 19% from the BB ? You raise vs yourself ?:f_biggrin:
      If PT4 says it is this way it is this way.:f_drink: (It really does.) My 3-bet:
      UTG: 8%
      HJ: 6%
      CO: 10%
      BU: 14%
      SB: 11%
      BB: 5%
      I usually flat in the BB but I'm thinking about 3-betting there.
    • danvari76
      danvari76
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2008 Posts: 19
      Originally posted by YohanN7
      But here is a problem: Notice that you play as many hands from the SB as from the BU. This can't be right.
      Of course it's not. But it's exactly the other way around than you think it should be. Overall VPIP should be highest in BB > SB > BT > CO > MP > UTG. In the blinds you have already money in the pot, which makes playing cheaper than from the other positions. Especially on microstakes there are lots of limped pots or raised multiway pots which you can enter for a very low price from the blinds.

      Originally posted by YohanN7
      I am doing 2.4BB/100 over 100k hands with which I am not happy. Having had stretches of 30k hands with 4BB/100, I'm pretty sure it is possible, though not easy, to beat these levels with 6-8BB/100.
      Your logic is flawed. From a sample size of 30k hands, which was clearly a hot run considering your overall winrate, you conclude that it's possible to have a winrate of twice the size of what you were making while running hot. I mean wtf?

      The only way such a winrate would be possible in the longrun is if you are a world class player playing exclusively on 0.02/0.04 on pokerstars. The only reason that makes it possible is because the rake is less than 1BB/100. On all other stakes it's long-term not achievable!

      Originally posted by YohanN7
      Unfortunately, there are 30k stretches with 1BB/100 too. I'm in one right now, but 30k hands is too much to blame on variance.
      It's absolutely not! It can be much worse and the only reason can be variance.

      Considering your true winrate is 2.4BB/100 chances for a 30k 1BB/100 stretch from any starting point are 28%. In other words on average you will have one 1BB/100 stretch of a sample size of 30k hands roughly every 107.000 hands.

      A 30k breakeven stretch will happen on average once every 460.000 hands. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen twice in your first 200.000 hands. Variance can be a bitch!
    • danvari76
      danvari76
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2008 Posts: 19
      Originally posted by Avataren
      EP:22%/21%
      MP: 24%/23%
      CO: 29%/28%
      BTN:35%/32%
      SB: 40%/ 25%
      Exactly how it should look like!
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