Razz HU SNG 1,5$ hand

    • wg123
      wg123
      Moderator
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      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 2,900
      Hi.
      What do you think about this hand? It was the one that lost my match. Did it do something bad here?
      3rd street - I have nuts so I'm capping. He caps with 8 vs A so I guess he has 82A or he is making some spazz.
      4th street - Still best hand so I bet for value
      5th street - Bet for value again.
      6th street - It looks like he takes the lead and he has T8 low. Still I have pot odds to call and hope to catch 3,5,6,7.
      river - terrible but I think I can't fold it when this pot is so huge and he might be spazzy (what 3rd street could show) and in case he didn't make a hand or something.

      Do you change something here?

      Transcript for hand #128758428621 requested by wgor11 (wgornicki11@wp.pl)

      *********** # 1 **************
      PokerStars Hand #128758428621: Tournament #1111671112, $1.40+$0.10 USD Razz
      Limit - Match Round I, Level V (100/200) - 2015/01/16 13:50:04 ET
      Table '1111671112 1' 2-max
      Seat 1: Torum777 (1007 in chips)
      Seat 2: wgor11 (1993 in chips) HERO
      Torum777: posts the ante 15
      wgor11: posts the ante 15
      *** 3rd STREET ***
      Dealt to Torum777 [8c]
      Dealt to wgor11 [4s 2d Ac]
      Torum777: brings in for 25
      wgor11: raises 75 to 100
      Torum777: raises 100 to 200
      wgor11: raises 100 to 300
      Torum777: calls 100
      *** 4th STREET ***
      Dealt to Torum777 [8c] [8s]
      Dealt to wgor11 [4s 2d Ac] [Td]
      wgor11: bets 100
      Torum777: calls 100
      *** 5th STREET ***
      Dealt to Torum777 [8c 8s] [Th]
      Dealt to wgor11 [4s 2d Ac Td] [Ks]
      wgor11: bets 200
      Torum777: calls 200
      *** 6th STREET ***
      Dealt to Torum777 [8c 8s Th] [7h]
      Dealt to wgor11 [4s 2d Ac Td Ks] [Tc]
      Torum777: bets 200
      wgor11: calls 200
      *** RIVER ***
      Dealt to wgor11 [4s 2d Ac Td Ks Tc] [2c]
      Torum777: bets 192 and is all-in
      wgor11: calls 192
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      Torum777: shows [As 5s 8c 8s Th 7h 6d] (Lo: 8,7,6,5,A)
      wgor11: shows [4s 2d Ac Td Ks Tc 2c] (Lo: K,T,4,2,A)
      Torum777 collected 2014 from pot
      *** SUMMARY ***
      Total pot 2014 | Rake 0
      Seat 1: Torum777 showed [As 5s 8c 8s Th 7h 6d] and won (2014) with Lo: 8,7,6,5,A
      Seat 2: wgor11 showed [4s 2d Ac Td Ks Tc 2c] and lost with Lo: K,T,4,2,A



      If you have any questions, please contact us at "PokerStars Support"
      <support@pokerstars.eu>
  • 13 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,148
      Hand sure starts out nice, but goes in the toilet on 5th street.
      I would check here -- maybe call but likely fold.
      When the T pairs, I'm pretty much outta there.

      All the best,
      VS
    • wg123
      wg123
      Moderator
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      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 2,900
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Hand sure starts out nice, but goes in the toilet on 5th street.
      I would check here -- maybe call but likely fold.
      When the T pairs, I'm pretty much outta there.

      All the best,
      VS
      Hi,
      thanks for your response and thanks for the converter. I was looking for one. Why would you fold 5th street? I'm still ahead there.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,148
      A lot depends on how this guy has played before.
      Has he played garbage hole cards before?

      OOP on 5th, I check and given his board I expect a check back.
      If he gets aggressive with a paired T-high board, his hole cards are likely at least as smooth as ours, and if so he is now ahead.

      But remember -- I'm no RAZZ expert -- I've played it as part of HORSE and 8-Game, and in those formats, I play v tight, but I get aggressive when opponents board pairs, or they draw Tens or higher

      I don't know drawing odds for RAZZ though, so you might actually be ahead on 5th, but if so, it is awfully slim.


      VS
    • wg123
      wg123
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      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 2,900
      I don't know drawing odds for RAZZ though, so you might actually be ahead on 5th
      I use a Razz simulator found online (not sure if I'm allowed to post a link here) and it says me that in this situation even if he started with smooth 82A I have 60% equity so I guess it's worth to jam a pot, isn't it?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,148
      If it this simulator:
      http://www.propokertools.com/simulations
      Then as far as I can tell it is OK to post the link.

      I've asked the ninjas to confirm it.

      The simulator looks nifty.
      Too bad it won't do 5-Card Draw :s_cry:
      VS
    • Anykey444
      Anykey444
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2011 Posts: 430
      For me it's a question, why beginner is trying to play HU. If your goal is to play in the end High Stakes HU - it's OK. But only in this case. One of the most important things in FR razz is dead cards, in HU you don't have those, = no practice.
    • wg123
      wg123
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      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 2,900
      I wanted to give it a try to choose the best format for me. I'll stick with cash games and some freerolls/ cheap MTTs until I get more experience and a bigger bankroll. Then I'll try HU SNG again.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,148
      Consider the RAZZ, HORSE and 8-Game freerolls.
      You're not likely to make much money, but you do get exposure to a lot of different games.
      The "Astronomers" freerolls pay tickets to a 2nd level freeroll on the weekend worth a couple of grand.

      Cheers,
      VS
    • Anykey444
      Anykey444
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2011 Posts: 430
      And why don't you save/use Hand History during your play? It could be easily converted to much more readable format. HH recieved by mail is hard to convert AFAIK.

      Speaking about the hand. Your opp plays it correctly (not spazzy as you suggested), especially in 3 bet pots he had enough pot odds: he has something about 40% equity on 4th and 5th. And on the river you should fold. Vs his most probable 3rd str. range (8- 8- 8 as he 2bet you and call your 3bet) you have only 7%, and your pot odds is about 10%. But more important - only very aggro players would bet hands worse than your on the river. If you don't have this read - fold. Recall - he was right on 4th, and to call even without odds is not the same as to be aggro.

      ProPokerTools Razz Simulation
      600,000 trials (Randomized)
      42ATKT2 7.08% (42,494 wins, 0 ties)
      (7- 7- 8)8T7* 92.92% (557,506 wins, 0 ties)
    • wg123
      wg123
      Moderator
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      Joined: 05.05.2014 Posts: 2,900
      Your opp plays it correctly (not spazzy as you suggested), especially in 3 bet pots he had enough pot odds: he has something about 40% equity on 4th and 5th.


      I said that he might be spazzy regarding 3rd street which he was capping with with 8 vs A which is not a good play even in HU, is it?

      Thanks for your evaluation!

      @Vorpal - thanks for you reccommendation. To be honest I can't play games like draw pokers, omahas or other studs so 8 and HORSE is not for me yet :) I saw Razz freerolls on PS and I'll try them. The bad thing is that you can only win an entry to some mixed games tourneys which I don't play.
    • Anykey444
      Anykey444
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2011 Posts: 430
      He just calls your 3bet, he didn't cap. And I am not an expert but in HU I think this is the correct play with his 8 without any reads on you. He has something like best 15% hand HU, so I think his 2 bet is OK even vs A, and after your 3 bet he has immediate odds to call like 16% I guess. And about 40% EQ vs your 2 babies in the hole.

      BTW you could just call his 2bet to conceal your strength, and check on 4-5 street, where despite you are (slightly IMO) ahead, but it very depends on 6th street. This is less variable despite less +EV play. One more time - I am not an expert.
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Gold
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      3rd, best to flat rather than cap imo. villain thinks they have the best starting hand so better to let them continue to think that no? also you can then flat with weaker hands and your opponent will never know when you have it. I almost never cap to resteals because i dont want to give my opponent the information they are looking for and i want to encourage them to make big mistakes on later streets.

      4th and 5th standard well played.

      6th is very sad, villain has the best hand almost 100% of the time, but you can't fold in a huge pot like this because you know you're drawing live.

      7th i can't blame you for calling but i just don't think you have the best hand ever. probably better to sigh, fold and hope you dont get dealt junk the next hand.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,148
      Originally posted by wg123
      @Vorpal - thanks for you reccommendation. To be honest I can't play games like draw pokers, omahas or other studs so 8 and HORSE is not for me yet :) I saw Razz freerolls on PS and I'll try them. The bad thing is that you can only win an entry to some mixed games tourneys which I don't play.
      The 2nd level tournament varies.
      For example, this Saturday's Round two is NLHE (tournament #1111379744)
      The Sunday one is Badugi.

      I've cashed a few of the Saturday ones -- nothing big, but every little bit helps...

      Peace,
      VS