No quitting this time

    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      I've come back to poker and lost motivation so many times since those golden days of mid 2000's, making free money from freerolls. Here's how it goes: I make a smallish deposit at a poker site. First play some tournaments for recreation, then realize it's quite difficult to always stay focused for the whole duration. Neither do I have the bankroll to multi-table enough. Next I go for sit' n' go's, but realize that variance is going to kill me. Lastly I return to multi-tabling 6-max, beat it from nl-5 to nl-20. Then I hit a tiny downswing of 5-10 bins, either lose confidence or motivation, cash out and take interest in something else completely.

      But this time is different. Maybe because I immediately got hit by variance after I started playing and now feel like I'm really being challenged. Maybe it's the motivation from the financial difficulties I'm in. I just had the worst 6 months of my life, maybe this new year has helped me somehow to begin recovering from my lifelong depression (,which going bankrupt would uncover, and is what I truly fear). Regardless, thousands of hands of no action, bad beats and tough calls only make me want to beat these limits faster and harder.

      During my stints in poker I have studied the game and changed the way I play. I am an extremely fast learner, which is probably why I lack all motivation. Once I reach good enough or above average, I'm usually done or start fucking around. It's all because of impossible level of self-expectation, which I recognize but am unable to change since it's the way I've always felt about myself, and it's the way this world makes me feel.

      So I am a recluse, and not the kind that replaces his social life with online forums. I don't have a social life. Duh, I don't have a life. Which is why improving my playing through this blog or these forums is destined to fail, again. But if this sudden burst of motivation is going to stay, I think it's worth a shot.

      So for starters, since I never ever write down any goals for myself, I'm going to do it now:
      [*] Join the Bankroll Challenge, from 50€ to 1000€, aim is to complete it in 2 months
      [*] Have some kind of a schedule that has some studying, poker and physical exercise. I'm supposed to write my Bachelor's thesis this spring.This is the hard one, never done it in my life. Same goes for studying. Poker and exercising have both been at least on and off kind of things.
      [*] Post around 5 hands with my weekly report and ask at least one specific poker related question every week.
      [*] Play at least 4000 hands every day.

      I'm going to play three or four tables of NL5 Speed Hold'em on iPoker. My actual bankroll is bigger, in case I need to make a deposit. But I doubt I need to. I gather enough PPP to unlock 6€ of bonus every day, so that alleviates the stress of going broke as well, a little bit.

      Now on to my first question

      I have HEM2. What kind of HUD information would you deem useful for speed poker at these stakes? I currently have it display VPIP, PFR, 3BET, 4BET, AGGRO. The 4 bet is there since I made some bad reads on an opponent based on his insane 3 bet %. Not sure why I thought it would be super useful in situations like that, but I feel it has been of some use in my preflop play.

      And my first few hands:

      Aces. About 200% of my losses this last week have been with pocket Aces and Kings. According to HEM the kings have been mostly just variance. But I'm not sure about the way I played some of those Aces. What kind of changes should I make in the way I play here? What kind of stats should I have on my opponent for shoving?

      1.IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      No stats on villain, turns out later he is a gigantic whale. From the Big Blind I'd expect the average player to reraise SB with 10/10 and JJ and to fold anything like this. Is this a false assumption? Not sure why I didn't shove on the flop.
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $38.23 (382.3 bb)
      BB: $16.09 (160.9 bb)
      UTG: $10.81 (108.1 bb)
      MP: $4.25 (42.5 bb)
      CO: $12.37 (123.7 bb)
      BTN: $9.90 (99 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A A
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.60) T 3 J (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.60, BB raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.80

      Turn: ($5.40) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $5.40, Hero calls $5.40

      River: ($16.20) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $7.99, Hero calls $7.99

      Results:
      $32.18 pot ($2.00 rake)
      Final Board: T 3 J 4 8
      Hero mucked A A and lost (-$16.09 net)
      BB showed 3 J and won $30.18 ($14.09 net)



      2.IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Just Villain is 22/13, aggro 2.1. His limp threw me off. I just don't see a hand I would play like that that would have hit the flop, maybe like 10,8 suited?? On the other hand, if he limps with an overpair from sb hoping the bb gets something, it might be if not a good one, a possible play.
      IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $11 (110 bb)
      Hero (BB): $11.18 (111.8 bb)
      UTG: $4.51 (45.1 bb)
      MP: $10.45 (104.5 bb)
      CO: $10 (100 bb)
      BTN: $10.11 (101.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A A
      UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.50, UTG folds, SB calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.10) T T 2 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.77, SB calls $0.77

      Turn: ($2.64) 3 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $2.64, SB raises to $5.28, Hero raises to $9.91 and is all-in, SB calls $4.45 and is all-in

      River: ($22.10) 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $22.10 pot ($1.47 rake)
      Final Board: T T 2 3 6
      SB showed 2 2 and won $20.63 ($9.63 net)
      Hero mucked A A and won $0.00 (-$11 net)



      3.IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      I'm not sure if this is a miss play on my part. I think there are plenty of weaker draws he might shove with. Villain is 28/26 with aggro of 5,0.
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.33 (53.3 bb)
      BB: $10.49 (104.9 bb)
      CO: $15.42 (154.2 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $18.06 (180.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A A
      CO folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB folds, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.65) T 7 9 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.35, Hero raises to $1.10, BB raises to $2.60, Hero raises to $16.80, BB calls $7.59 and is all-in

      Turn: ($21.03) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($21.03) 6 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      $21.03 pot ($1.40 rake)
      Final Board: T 7 9 Q 6
      BB showed J T and won $19.63 ($9.14 net)
      Hero mucked A A and lost (-$10.49 net)

      4. IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      Here I put him on an overpair since just calling with trips seems like a weak play to me as it should be obvious I have an overpair. Villain is 28/23 & 5,4 aggro.
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $10.10 (101 bb)
      BB: $10 (100 bb)
      Hero (CO): $13.14 (131.4 bb)
      BTN: $10 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A A
      Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB folds

      Flop: ($1) 6 8 3 (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1, BTN calls $1, SB folds

      Turn: ($3) 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.10, BTN calls $2.10

      River: ($7.20) K (2 players)
      Hero bets $3.60, BTN raises to $6.60 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.00

      Results:
      $20.40 pot ($1.36 rake)
      Final Board: 6 8 3 4 K
      Hero mucked A A and lost (-$10 net)
      BTN showed 8 8 and won $19.04 ($9.04 net)
  • 16 replies
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      :f_drink:

      sorry to hear that you are going through tough times mate. make sure you keep your head clear and don't bring your worries with you to the table.

      about those hands, may i recommend you post some of them in the hand evaluation forums as well as your blog, you will get very helpful comments from professional hand judges.

      gl.
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,108
      He GrimCrom,

      good luck in our little challenge!
      We're looking forward to your first update next Monday in our Get Rich or Die Tryin' - The Bankroll Challenge - Reporting thread
      Maybe you should also play more hands like J3s instead of Aces?
      btw, give this one a read: Highlight Thread - The Nuts Turn into crap

      CU,SvenBe
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      So, I don't think there will be an update on Monday.
      I just had my first -13bin day ever. Well I doubt I've ever had more than 6-7 bin days before. oh yeah, graph for the shock factor :D



      I played 5400 hands, improved my play throughout. I started today my strictly adhering to the standard ORC here. Well, actually a little bit stricter. Then I tightened up to the minimal ORC. All in all, I feel like there weren't any huge mistakes in my preflop play, other than folding two pocket kings. Other was against a smallish stack who was looser than me so I thought he'd probably go all in with stuff like JJ and QQ too. The other one had vpip and pfr three times higher than me over 200-300 hands and he was BB too, I was SB or Button.

      Other than those hands, the problem was postflop play. I don't think I won more than 5 hands total. I don't really think I had that many chances to win, tbh. I didn't hit sets or draws or flushes, and if I did, I lost. I just checked and HEM says I've gotten about 10 flushes in my 11000 hands. Similarly, pocket pairs improving to sets is about 55 over all streets. These numbers seem a bit low to me. On the other hand maybe it's just because I lost every time I got a set.

      If I got anything, I feel like I had to raise at least a pot regardless of the board. I feel like that made me lose a lot of the action but on the other hand if someone called or raised I lost anyway.
      I actually have no idea what kind of a hand you can play post flop now. I don't think I tilted so much, but I definitely let variance affect my play. My aggression factor went from over 5 to about 1.5 today. And my post flop fold% is now about 75%. But I feel like, relying on bluffing alone for over 5000 hands isn't going to work either.

      Overall I feel like I should play a lot tighter in speed poker format. On the other hand, today, I felt like I could only abuse the rocky players. I don't know how I could beat the more loose and aggressive players(, since I assume you would need a hand for that, at least sometimes). Similarly, I'm not sure how to deal with small stacks. I feel like they can pressure me all they want and when I try to catch them pushing with a weaker hand they always end up having AA or KK. Maybe I should just never enter a pot with small stacks. If I have to find something positive about my play, it would seem like I'm winning with broadways and smaller one gappers, so I guess I hit my outs with straights every now and then at least. If someone wants to know my stats in todays sessions were:

      [*] VPIP 19.7
      [*] PFR 13.1
      [*] 3BET 5.03
      [*] WTSD% 27.0
      [*] W$SD 54%
      [*] AGG 1.29
      [*] AGG% 16.2

      I definitely called too much from big blind at first. According to HEM I lost about every big blind. Also lost about every small blind. Today I also lost from the button, but I think that's where I went preflop all in each time. Apart from that I feel like I raised often enough from button and cutoff. Also lost from MP, I think I raised with suited kings and aces with too small kickers.

      If you guys aren't facepalming hard enough yet, here's me playing aces like and idiot again :D
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.26 (105.2 bb)
      BB: $5.14 (102.8 bb)
      UTG: $4.85 (97 bb)
      MP: $5 (100 bb)
      CO: $5.02 (100.4 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $8.78 (175.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A A
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 6 J 3 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB raises to $0.55, Hero calls $0.35

      Turn: ($1.42) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.99, Hero calls $0.99

      River: ($3.40) 2 (2 players)
      BB bets $3.45, Hero calls $3.45

      Results:
      $10.30 pot ($0.68 rake)
      Final Board: 6 J 3 5 2
      BB showed J 2 and won $9.62 ($4.48 net)
      Hero mucked A A and lost (-$5.14 net)

      I should have folded at flop I guess.

      And here's the average set I got. I can't even remember if I thought I was ahead or behind after flop, still called the all in. Tilting I guess. Or just tired.

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $4.27 (85.4 bb)
      BB: $22.27 (445.4 bb)
      UTG: $1.95 (39 bb)
      MP: $9.17 (183.4 bb)
      CO: $5 (100 bb)
      BTN: $3.33 (66.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K J
      4 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $0.17, Hero calls $0.12

      Flop: ($0.34) K 6 K (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.19, Hero calls $0.19

      Turn: ($0.72) 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks

      River: ($0.72) 8 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.72, BB raises to $21.91 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.19 and is all-in

      Results:
      $8.54 pot ($0.56 rake)
      Final Board: K 6 K 3 8
      Hero mucked K J and lost (-$4.27 net)
      BB showed K 8 and won $7.98 ($3.71 net)
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      1st hand isnt that bad to be honest, maybe the river call is a mistake but its probably not that bad, fd bricked, its really just a set or a junky 2 pair that beats you. dont take my word for it i am far from an expert in nlhe.

      2nd hand is super unlucky, but i do think you were way too passive was the bad variance starting to affect you at this point? how many buy-ins is your bankroll? if you increased that a bit it might alleviate what im guessing is fear about potential losses affecting your game.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      I still have a bankroll, I don't think there's that much fear affecting my play. I guess losing for a week would affect most people. That was one of the last hands too.
      On other news I think I'm moving KK into fit or fold range pretty much. I don't think I can win with that hand otherwise. At least until I understand what kind of ranges people 3 bet and and beat me with. I guess I could still go all in with it against unknown or really aggressive min stacks.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Today I filled a big hole.


      So since I am now a gold member I got to read the articles on HUD settings and free value. I set sb and bb raise/call values in HUD and feel like it's a massive difference in my steal attempts from button and cutoff. HEM says I won 37.77bb/100 hands from button, which seems like a really nice amount. From the cutoff it was 0/100, maybe I need to raise more from cutoff?

      From big blind I lost -44/100 with a 3 bet of 5.17, which seems just a little bit low. VPIP was 20.4, is that ok? I should probably add some more hands to my 3 bet ranges. SB losses -24/100, definitely too low 3 bet value here. UTG and MP seem fine for the most part, maybe I raise a little too much from UTG and too seldom from MP.
      I'm playing AA's much better now postflop, and also getting more reasonable results, KK's are still getting pooped on. Showdown winnings are about 10 bins below EV. Still getting only about one nut flush/high card flush per a thousand hands. 3 straights in today's session, combined winnings of about 15 big blinds. Overall OESD's and FD's are probably contributing to my non-showdown losses.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Another -8 bins. I think I made like 3 bad all-in calls, and tried to 4bet punish small stacks with JJ+ a few times but they had AA every time. Apart from that I actually don't know what is happening. Another 7000 hands where I lose every hand when the flop is shown.
      My chance of flopping a set is 6%. And there's a long way to actually winning from there. Is it even profitable to open raise any pairs?
      20 high card flushes, so about 15% of my 4flush draws on the flop complete. 45 straights in 27000 hands, that's about 11% of all straight draws on the flop. I lose a lot of money on straight draws. I certainly feel like my opponents can value bet me all the way to the river and I'll never win. Some fish minraise every street, so I don't even have to take implied odds to account, but I can't remember ever getting to punish them.

      I watched w34z3ls videos on 3 betting and 4betting and set my hud to show useful stats, I feel like it had an immediate positive impact but now I'm not so sure. My 3bet% now is over 7, I don't feel like it's too little at least but it could be more.Yesterday I had a breakeven day with 3bet% of 13. Today it was definitely about 15 for the first 1000 hands but I felt like it stopped winning me that many pots preflop, and my flop fold to contibet is super high. On the other hand is it really worthwhile calling or reraising the flop when I have no outs? I think my image is quite TAG but at the same time the opponents don't have to respect me at all. I can't push anyone off the pot with AGG <2. Is it possible to play profitable poker just folding every flop? I think a lot of the opponents stopped caring about my 3bets and 4bets really quickly, although my image should be quite nitty. I 3barreled a guy who had top pair, the board had 4straight cards and 4card flush. But he just calls me down. I had a few hands like this:

      Villain has flop Cbet of 80% and turn 65%, call 3bet 60%. Even against his turn contibet, I still have more than enough equity, without taking implied odds into consideration? I'm not that great at using equilab, so correct me if what I say sounds incredibly stupid.
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $4.99 (99.8 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.62 (112.4 bb)
      UTG: $4.75 (95 bb)
      MP: $1.95 (39 bb)
      CO: $6.86 (137.2 bb)
      BTN: $5.04 (100.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 A
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) Q 6 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.22, CO raises to $0.44, Hero calls $0.22

      Turn: ($1.20) 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.84, Hero calls $0.84

      River: ($2.88) T (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.88, CO raises to $5.43, Hero calls $1.31

      Results:
      $11.26 pot ($0.75 rake)
      Final Board: Q 6 9 6 T
      Hero mucked 5 A and lost (-$5.62 net)
      CO showed Q Q and won $10.51 ($4.89 net)


      And a lot more like this:

      Villain steals from the button 31%, so I have over 90% equity against his range? He contibets flop 81% of time too. If I'm using Equilab correctly, I did the right thing here?
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $2.73 (54.6 bb)
      Hero (BB): $6.40 (128 bb)
      UTG: $6.28 (125.6 bb)
      MP: $5.71 (114.2 bb)
      CO: $7.87 (157.4 bb)
      BTN: $5.14 (102.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J K
      3 folds, BTN raises to $0.15, SB folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) K 2 K (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $0.16, Hero raises to $0.56, BTN calls $0.40

      Turn: ($1.44) 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1, BTN calls $1

      River: ($3.44) 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $3.44, BTN calls $3.43

      Results:
      $10.30 pot ($0.68 rake)
      Final Board: K 2 K 6 5
      Hero mucked J K and won $0.00 (-$5.14 net)
      BTN showed A K and won $9.62 ($4.48 net)


      Anyway, feel free to give advice or insult or w/e.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      So since I was skipping sleep to get my day/night cycle back to normal, I decided to run 2 tables for thousand hands playing really strictly according to my gameplan. I discovered 2 big leaks.

      [*] Second and third barrels - I know that my opponent has the top pair and I can represent flush draw,straight draw or just monster hands in general. But the players in this limit don't fold when they should. It seems that I can't rely on stats for getting this call right.
      So I'm taking turn and river bets out of my game pretty much completely

      [*] Making big changes to the gameplan. As I was playing, I reviewed my hands closely: there was simply no way to make a profit out of this session. If there was a perfect poker player playing in my stead, he would've struggled to turn a profit with these hands. I shouldn't let variance affect my gameplan in longer sessions.

      Overall, I was very happy with the way I played. I only lost half a bin in 1000 hands, my biggest losing hands were like this:

        Flopped 3 Aces, lost to 10 high with 9 high
        3barrel bluff
        flopped Ace set that got outdrawn on the turn
        AJ from SB into A6 two pair from BB


        Those were all the over 25bb losses, but even the biggest I only lost half a stack. In my biggest wins there was also something like AJ from the button, isolating a shortstacking fish in the BB, flopping the top pair in a dry board and shoving only to find out he had AKs and was actually ahead with OESD and FD. So EV wise, I should've ran even worse than I actually did.


      Positive things:

      My stats seem more difficult to abuse now. VPIP around 20-22, PFR 15-17, 3bet is over 10 vs 3bet fold is <60, Flop Cbet isn't too high but neither is fold vs FlopCbet. I call or raise over 40% from BB, 20% from SB(too little?) I should've been a little more aggressive preflop towards the end of the session, but also felt that I was getting less hands that fit my range. One more thing to think about is maybe adding FOLDvsFLOPCBET in some useful spot in my HUD.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Again running about -20/100 bb under EV. On top of that

      -2 bins from flopping 3Aces with AK against fullhouse,
      -1 bin KK against AA, villain is very LAG 3 and 4 bets 15% over 600hands so I'm thinking that maybe this time, but no. Usually I 3 bet KK's and fold on the flop, that's not great either, but loses me less money.
      - 1 bin nut FD+OESD against two whales, one got straight on the turn, the other got full house on the river
      - 1 bin from this:
      Guy has a 3bet of 15 and 4 bet of 11 over 1000 hands, the way he plays this makes no sense to me. Is there something wrong with the way I play this?
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $4.37 (87.4 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.71 (114.2 bb)
      MP: $4.98 (99.6 bb)
      CO: $6.40 (128 bb)
      BTN: $4.07 (81.4 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K A
      MP raises to $0.17, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $1.55, MP calls $0.80

      Flop: ($3.12) 2 Q 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.16 and is all-in, MP calls $3.43 and is all-in

      Turn: ($9.98) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($9.98) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $9.98 pot ($0.66 rake)
      Final Board: 2 Q 6 Q 4
      Hero mucked K A and lost (-$4.98 net)
      MP showed J J and won $9.32 ($4.34 net)



      My nonSD is breakeven, so I guess I should be calling more stuff but I'm uncomfortable calling people down with top pair or hands that can't improve. Not that my draws improve anyway.
      I'm starting to think VPIP and PFR aren't all that trustworthy on this level: people may play 25% of their hands but to me those hands are still completely random. I'm only 2bins down in this session, so let's hope I can have two winning sessions in a row.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Update for the bankroll challenge. Week 1
      35k hands
      Starting BR: 50€
      Current BR: - 100
      So I'm probably the fastest to reach that other end of this challenge and end up killing myself :D

      Not exactly accurate numbers since I'm not sure at what point I started the challenge. Turns out that 10buy in bankroll was a bit overconfident, but so was 30buy ins.
      Over 15bins under EV with AA and KK alone but the bullshit I'm sad about won't show in EV, I mean, last 15000 hands my showdown winnings have gone up 4bins....

      Will probably keep playing 5nl speed poker, there isn't a lower stake after all. And I play 2-6 tables. Playing less tables doesn't seem to matter. On top of playing that many hands, I've also spent hours reading strategy articles and videos here, which seem really useful to me. I can't wait to see all my learning have an actual impact.


      To lighten up the mood, here's me actually winning against a fish:

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $5.07 (101.4 bb)
      BB: $4.75 (95 bb)
      UTG: $2.81 (56.2 bb)
      MP: $7.44 (148.8 bb)
      CO: $9.76 (195.2 bb)
      BTN: $5.23 (104.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
      3 folds, BTN calls $0.05, Hero completes, BB checks

      Flop: ($0.15) K K K (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($0.15) 9 (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

      River: ($0.15) 4 (3 players)
      Hero bets $2.35, BB folds, BTN raises to $5.18, Hero calls $2.67 and is all-in

      Results:
      $10.19 pot ($0.67 rake)
      Final Board: K K K 9 4
      Hero mucked K Q and won $9.52 ($4.45 net)
      BB mucked and lost (-$0.05 net)
      BTN showed 6 8 and lost (-$5.07 net)
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      This is starting to affect my mental health. First 500 hands running somewhat normal. Then the next 3000 hands just getting fucked in the ass.

      e. After a few small winning sessions, it is another -8 bin one.
      Dunno why img doesn't show.

      One of these days this stuff will start going my way too.

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.


      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $5.15 (103 bb)
      BB: $2 (40 bb)
      UTG: $1.49 (29.8 bb)
      MP: $6.81 (136.2 bb)
      CO: $6.09 (121.8 bb)
      BTN: $4.90 (98 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 K
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.13, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.35) Q 4 T (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

      Turn: ($0.75) J (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.75, CO calls $0.75

      River: ($2.25) 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.30, CO raises to $4.65, Hero calls $1.75 and is all-in

      Results:
      $10.35 pot ($0.69 rake)
      Final Board: Q 4 T J 4
      Hero mucked 9 K and lost (-$5.15 net)
      CO showed A K and won $9.66 ($4.51 net)

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5 (100 bb)
      BB: $5.76 (115.2 bb)
      UTG: $8.05 (161 bb)
      MP: $5.49 (109.8 bb)
      CO: $2.15 (43 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $6.54 (130.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with T J
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.35) 8 J J (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.24, SB calls $0.24

      Turn: ($0.83) 5 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.58, SB calls $0.58

      River: ($1.99) 6 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.39, SB raises to $4.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.64

      Results:
      $10.05 pot ($0.67 rake)
      Final Board: 8 J J 5 6
      SB showed 8 8 and won $9.38 ($4.38 net)
      Hero mucked T J and lost (-$5 net)

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.07 (101.4 bb)
      BB: $2.25 (45 bb)
      UTG: $5.37 (107.4 bb)
      MP: $14.44 (288.8 bb)
      Hero (CO): $5 (100 bb)
      BTN: $2.17 (43.4 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 7 7
      UTG raises to $0.17, MP folds, Hero calls $0.17, 3 folds

      Flop: ($0.41) 7 2 5 (2 players)
      UTG bets $0.24, Hero raises to $1.13, UTG raises to $5.20 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.70 and is all-in

      Turn: ($10.07) K (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($10.07) A (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $10.07 pot ($0.67 rake)
      Final Board: 7 2 5 K A
      UTG showed J J and won $9.40 ($4.40 net)
      Hero mucked 7 7 and lost (-$5 net)

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5 (100 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5 (100 bb)
      CO: $9.80 (196 bb)
      BTN: $8.24 (164.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K J
      CO raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, SB folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.47) K K 2 (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.32, CO folds, BTN calls $0.32

      Turn: ($1.11) Q (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.77, BTN raises to $2.05, Hero calls $1.28

      River: ($5.21) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $2.90, Hero calls $2.48 and is all-in

      Results:
      $10.17 pot ($0.67 rake)
      Final Board: K K 2 Q 9
      Hero mucked K J and lost (-$5 net)
      BTN showed K Q and won $9.50 ($4.50 net)

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.75 (115 bb)
      BB: $2.98 (59.6 bb)
      UTG: $2 (40 bb)
      MP: $8.71 (174.2 bb)
      CO: $5.41 (108.2 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $5.05 (101 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5 5
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, SB folds, BB calls $0.05

      Flop: ($0.32) 9 5 8 (3 players)
      BB bets $0.22, CO calls $0.22, Hero raises to $0.60, BB calls $0.38, CO calls $0.38

      Turn: ($2.12) 2 (3 players)
      BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.48, BB calls $1.48, CO folds

      River: ($5.08) 7 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

      Results:
      $6.68 pot ($0.44 rake)
      Final Board: 9 5 8 2 7
      BB showed A K and won $6.24 ($3.26 net)
      Hero mucked 5 5 and lost (-$2.98 net)


      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.28 (105.6 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5 (100 bb)
      UTG: $9.88 (197.6 bb)
      MP: $7.37 (147.4 bb)
      CO: $1.92 (38.4 bb)
      BTN: $7.24 (144.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T T
      UTG folds, MP calls $0.05, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, MP calls $0.15

      Flop: ($0.42) T 9 J (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.29, MP calls $0.29

      Turn: ($1) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $1, Hero calls $1

      River: ($3) 2 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $3, Hero folds

      Results:
      $3 pot ($0.20 rake)
      Final Board: T 9 J 8 2
      Hero mucked T T and lost (-$1.49 net)
      MP mucked and won $2.80 ($1.31 net)
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      I am not sure where to give up hands like this. This is probably the biggest leak in my game.

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $4.63 (92.6 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.94 (118.8 bb)
      UTG: $3.56 (71.2 bb)
      MP: $11.77 (235.4 bb)
      CO: $4.76 (95.2 bb)
      BTN: $5 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 9
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.15, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 3 4 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.32, MP calls $0.32

      Turn: ($0.96) 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.96, MP calls $0.96

      River: ($2.88) 7 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.01, MP raises to $7.12, Hero calls $2.50

      Results:
      $11.90 pot ($0.79 rake)
      Final Board: 3 4 9 5 7
      Hero mucked 9 9 and lost (-$5.94 net)
      MP showed 6 6 and won $11.11 ($5.17 net)
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Taking 3betting out of my game, and probably will try to defend blinds less. This stuff just doesn't work at this level. If people only play preflop with monsters, there is no point right? Should probably start limping. Still running epicly, calling a maniac with flush when he rivers quads, and calling bluffs only to get sucked out on the river. BB always has a monster hand. Small stacks pay anything to hit that flush draw on the river. Lost all but 2 showdowns in 1,5k hands.

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $6.27 (125.4 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.84 (116.8 bb)
      CO: $5.42 (108.4 bb)
      BTN: $5.34 (106.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T 9
      CO raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 8 Q J (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.32, CO calls $0.32

      Turn: ($0.96) 8 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.96, CO calls $0.96

      River: ($2.88) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

      Results:
      $3.88 pot ($0.25 rake)
      Final Board: 8 Q J 8 8
      Hero mucked T 9 and lost (-$1.93 net)
      CO showed Q A and won $3.63 ($1.70 net)


      I'm really good at this.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Had a few breakeven sessions, but overall I'm still going broke and fast. Must be something wrong with the RNG at iPoker. I mean this exact same thing happened 3times in 1000 hands:

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.75 (115 bb)
      BB: $10.37 (207.4 bb)
      UTG: $3.51 (70.2 bb)
      MP: $5.90 (118 bb)
      Hero (CO): $5.07 (101.4 bb)
      BTN: $4.95 (99 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 9 9
      2 folds, Hero calls $0.05, BTN folds, SB raises to $0.15, BB folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.35) 9 T 7 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.24, Hero raises to $0.53, SB calls $0.29

      Turn: ($1.41) 8 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

      River: ($3.01) 6 (2 players)
      SB bets $1.50, Hero folds

      Results:
      $3.01 pot ($0.20 rake)
      Final Board: 9 T 7 8 6
      SB mucked and won $2.81 ($1.33 net)
      Hero mucked 9 9 and lost (-$1.48 net)


      All in all I've again felt like I've improved my play. I used to think that my opponents were different types of players and assigned them with colours to better exploit them. But now I've realized that there are actually only 2 kinds of players who you need to make adjustments for and they are:
      [*] 10% rocks
      [*] 90% fish

      Really I've been so stupid overthinking this game. So I've tried to simplify:
      [*] preflop game almost like in real poker
      [*] see if we hit the flop
      [*] if we have the nuts or near-nuts, try to go all-in on the river
      [*] otherwise go to showdown if we can get there really cheaply ( and we have something better than a pair, generally)

      Thinking anything else seems like shooting myself in the foot. Sure there are some guys who cbet and raise with less than two pair, but trying to catch those guys is costly in the long run(they also suck out quite often).


      edit.

      5/5 on two-outters tonight

      IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $3.22 (64.4 bb)
      BB: $8.16 (163.2 bb)
      UTG: $6.34 (126.8 bb)
      MP: $13.30 (266 bb)
      Hero (CO): $6.83 (136.6 bb)
      BTN: $15.79 (315.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A 5
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 5 T A (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.32, BB calls $0.32

      Turn: ($0.96) Q (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $7.69 and is all-in, Hero calls $5.36 and is all-in

      River: ($13.68) 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $13.68 pot ($0.91 rake)
      Final Board: 5 T A Q 6
      BB showed Q Q and won $12.77 ($5.94 net)
      Hero mucked A 5 and lost (-$6.83 net)


      Should I implement this into my game too?
      Seems counter-intuitive pot odds wise. I actually feel like this is the kind of opponent I'd want to be playing against, who pays too much that is. And surely a villain who pays way too much for 2 outs is one who would bluff all-in too But how do I know whether my hand is still good? Poker seems so counter-intuitive nowadays.

      How do I improve my showdown winnings in general. It should be the most important thing in beating micro stakes, but I just don't see any +EV places to shove and if I don't shove, I get shoved.
      Is limping with pairs and hoping your set is the best the way to go?

      I've watched so many strategy videos but nothing seems to apply. I feel like I'm completely lost as to when it is okay to bet. I know my cbet shouldn't be 20% and cbet fold 80%. I don't even know what kind of hands I should be playing preflop. Hands that you can play postflop? What does that even mean, and how common are those?

      edit2. A lot of this stuff I say is really stupid. Why do I keep thinking my opponents know basic math or want to win in the long run. And why can't I just wait for the nuts, even if it takes 3000 hands. I somehow convince myself that it's not a winning strategy.
    • GrimCrom
      GrimCrom
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2010 Posts: 19
      Almost forgot my Bankroll challenge update due to being busy with school stuff. I'll fix my starting BR to 200€ from now on, since the initial 50€ was rather unrealistic.
      Hands: 22k
      Starting BR: 200€
      Profit: -20
      Current BR: 80

      So lost a lot less this week. I think almost all my sessions started ok this last week but some of them just ended miserably: the non showdown winnings just starts to plummet when I start missing every single flop or draw hand. I've only been running 2-3 tables so I doubt it is because I'm missing information or rushing decisions. Also ran 2-3 bins below EV. Made one bigger mistake that cost me a stack, although the hand was quite interesting, I'll try to remember to post it here or in the hand evaluation forum.
    • imgoingtomirage
      imgoingtomirage
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 03.07.2010 Posts: 22,439
      Hey GrimCrom,

      We are waiting for your Bankroll Challenge update for last week: Get Rich or Die Tryin' - The Bankroll Challenge - Reporting thread :f_cool:

      Cheers!