Need Some Help

    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hello everyone!

      Im a new guy here, but need some help an advice a long the way!
      So i started playing poker more or less 1 month ago.
      I started with playing SNG 45 man- 0.50$
      I had an starting bank roll on 10$, ( i know its micro, but i have to start somewhere to learn)
      Usually im playing on 3-4 tables at the same time, but went down to two table because of losing streaks!
      First after some reading and practice i went up to 15$ and after i went down to 0 after 3 days playing.


      My strategy that i follow is,
      Step 1: Playing very tight, not doing anything unless i have AA,KK eller AK,QQ,JJ in late position, (just mainly 2 first blinds.)
      Also im making marks on fishes so i can take them out with A-K,Q,J when an opportunity comes, or not sometimes they get lucky and have hands.. Shit happends :-)
      I also mark the grinders, so later in game i can be more carefull incase if they raise :) Most of the times they are not bluffing !! :-)

      Step 2;When most of the crazy fishesh is gone i usually raise with 8,9,10,J eller suitedcards. Raising ofcouse with KK,AA,QQ, AK in early position.
      And yes sometimes i have to fold even A-A on flop/turn if its seems the oponent have straight or flash.. :(


      Step 3: Now when its getting closer to the bubble, slowly but trully there is 2 alternatives. Eather im getting shortstucked and then its time to go all in with A~ , KQ or what pair whaever in late position, sometimes mid position, depends on the game ofcourse. Or im a high stacked since ive been blessed in early game with fish and cards. And now i can be more agressive, since most of the times a lot of people are so tight here.

      In final table i usully try to use my position on table in right moments..
      But however usually im getting eather badbeated in early game or getting shortstacked and losing game when i go in with Ace/something.
      Because they always sit there with A+A or K+K , or simply they get something amazing on the river. Oh that river, i have a huge problem with him atm! ;-)


      So what im missing, or what kind of misstakes im making?
      I have taken a first place once, 2th places twice and 3-7 places plenty of times.
      Im not sure if i just had a bad swing by losing 15$, i know i lost few games by newby misstakes and few games on satelite games.
      But most of those money went down on SNG 45 man . 0.50$..

      I wanna get better and make a small but a "profit" in my game, so i can shorty move up to 1$ SNG.
      Only been playing for 1 month but plenty of hours almost every day.

      I would be grateful for all the help i can get! :f_rolleyes:
      Wanna get an better pokerplayer, if you know what i mean :f_thumbsup:

      Peaces guys!
  • 21 replies
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,647
      Hey Kinah,

      Welcome to PokerStrategy.com :welcome:

      You sort of have the right idea but there are other forces in play here. In 45 manners when your stack gets under 15 BBs, most good players will go into push/fold mode. In other words you open shove rather than start with a standard raise. But how do you know when to shove and with what.

      Poker is a game of mathematics. Good players even at the 45 man micros are learning and practising concepts like ICM (Independent Chip Model) and the Nash equilibrium. I urge you to read as much about these concepts as possible to ensure you get your fair distribution of high place finishes.

      You can start with these:

      Chip Value (1): The Principle of Diminishing Chip Value
      Chip Value (2): The Fundamentals of the Independent Chip Model (ICM)
      Chip Value (3): Application of the ICM
      Chip Value (4): The Risk Premium Concept

      Don't forget to check out our free money offers. This will cost you nothing and will give you lifetime Bronze status as well as a tracked room to earn SPs (Strategy Points) and open up more advanced articles and videos.

      If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask. :f_thumbsup:

      Have fun :gl:

      Laz
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,972
      In addition to what Lazza said, I can also recommend the article about our SNG Beginner's Strategy. The concepts are quite basic and it was made with 9-man SNGs in mind, but it should still be a good introduction for you.

      We also have some more advanced SNG lessons that would certainly help you out, but apart from the ones Laz gave you, you'd need a higher status to get access to them.

      Knowledge of the ICM is very important in SNGs, so I'd recommend downloading the ICM Trainer from our Poker Tools section and doing regular practice sessions to get a feel for the right decision in Push/Fold situations (remember to reduce the Hero Edge slider to 0% for accurate results). Once again, it's mostly made for 9-man SNG players, but much of it can be applied to 45-manners as well.
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey Lazza,

      Thank you for those links, i read all of them!
      I guess in my head i have an decent idea of how i ev current hand, a lot depends on my enemy players ofcourse.

      One of the problems i had so far, i guess when i see an loose player raising in early position, im siting on two spots behind small blind, i have a small stack and big blind in this case have a huge stack. Should i raise here/fold or simply go all in?
      Lets say if i raise and BB raise to, on flop comes A,2,Q.. BB might have something there or just using the scare tactic because he is so far ahead with the chips.. The lose player can go all in, he might be lucky this time or just siting with some uselles 7,9 cards..
      If i fold, i will save all my money but i might not get another shot since ante eating me up.
      If i go all in, BB might fold and then i have decent chance vs this lose player.. But if BB Wont, i will be out of the game if he gets lucky on river or simply have better cards there..

      I think most of the times, i fold or go all in there..
      But my mainly problem is that im not getting any decent hands during the early game and then i have always to go ALL in at some point when im shortstucked just to survive little bit longer.. Eather i do survive and might somehow get into the final table or i lose the game.

      I think in about 85% of the last games i lost, i had much bigger odds to win the hand with my cards.. But i still lose it on the river.. Always and forever! haha!

      Another thing i find dificult, if im siting 2 positions behind small blind and i get suited 7+8, if there only been one call before.. I can call just to see what is on the flop.. But the problem is that, there is once again 3 players ahead of me and a lot of times.. They start to raise.. So i have to fold and then i lose some of my stack allready and Ante takes care of the rest of my stack after that.. haha

      I guess, i need to continue practice more.. But it feels just like the last 3 days, no matter what i do.. And even if odds is my higher on my site.. They always somehow get better cards! :(

      Do you have an idea of how many games i need to get into final table spots to be an winning player?
      How many games can you lose in the raw if you having a badbeats?
      Whats was your worst tilt situations when it comes to SNG`s?

      Once again, thanks for all the help!

      Also thank you Harrier for the links, im gonna check them out later today!

      / Peace
    • donkament
      donkament
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2007 Posts: 206
      Hi :D Nice that you want to grind sitngo's. From what i understand the 0.50$ sng's are turbo meaning the blindlevel go up every 5 minutes.
      This means you will have less big blinds faster and will be in push allin or fold fase faster. This is not an issue if you have a good understanding of push and call ranges. This will come with practice and reading articles playing with icm trainers. Sng wizard has a 30day trial and helps alot with icm stuff.
      Losing 15$ wich is 30 buyins is standard in turbo 45 mans even for winning players :f_thumbsup: .
      Since you are still learning maybe going down to the 0.25$ sitngo's will be better.
      These are in 45 and 90 man wich play the same and have 10 and 15 min blind levels. This will give you more time to play poker and wait for good hands.
      Having 60 buyins wil be alot safer and you will not lose your money as fast or even make money if you play good and are not unlucky.
      You can always shoot me a message if you need more help :f_drink:
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey Donkament! :s_drink:

      I actually started with playing 0,25 SNGS first for 45 man, it was going totaly ok. :f_cool:
      But usually 0.25 is going on normal speed and last for about 2h, whille if you are getting to final table on 0.50 - 45 turbo man its takes your around 1.5h.. And since im lately only playing on 2 tables at time, (because of the losing streaks).. Its just feels sad to sit 2h+2h and a lot of times maybe get nothing or +-0.. Thats was the main reason i moved to turbos instead!
      Maybe i will try to grind 0,25 again on 3 tables or something.. Gonna think about it!

      Also most of the games im losing at 0.50 from this moment from point when i dont get any hands,ante eats me up, so i have to go allin.:facepalm:
      Big stack normaly sits on my right and left position.. And i get hands like 3+7 when im i have chance to go all in vs fish/lose player!
      And ofcourse when i go allin with Ace+ anyhand vs bigstack, at point when i have no other choice.. They always have freaking amazing hands or just always seems to be lucky on river! :truestory:

      Another exemple :i get an premium hand early stages of game under the gun and then there is 2-3 raises after me and im hating my life!! :pcuser:

      Maybe i should move down to 0.25 cents again, and play on 3 tables at time.. Until i get 20$ so i can move up again! O lose it all! :f_eek:
      What do you think ? :--)

      Peace!
    • donkament
      donkament
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2007 Posts: 206
      It depends on what you want to play and have fun with. If you dont mind depositing 10-15$ a couple of times you can keep trying to build out your bankroll with turbo's.
      I prefer turbo's aswell :coolface: People play turbo's so you are in push fold faster and from what I can read. You are having troublew with late game shove/fold fase. And offcourse you dont get many hands but your opponents dont either :profit: . You need to find spots where you can shove allin to steal the blind+antes. You would be amazed at what types of hands you should be going allin with at certain stack levels. You can resteal vs regs that minraise from late position with high rate of succes as most regs love stealing in late position with enough chips. Watching the stuff on here and reading about icm should help out alot.
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hello again

      I dont mind depositing 10-15$ dollars a few times, but i wanna see progress in my game.
      I totaly agree about that opponents dont have a lot of time eather, to get amazing times in turbos!

      And yes you are reading my mind, im having most trouble with late game /shove/fold fase.
      Dont get me wrong im trying to find spots to steal blinds in late position, but i had so many times those "POLICE" guys on small or big blind to check what i have :deadhappy: .. And im siting there with 3+7!!
      Or a lot of times big stack limps from early position and i try to go allin in late position :happy: .. He will also allin :fuckyeah: ..
      And there im.. sitting crying in the corner.. :deadhappy:

      Also what about mid game, should i try to steal here? Or its just better to do steals in late game, with allin?
      Im gonna read more here and practice more on 0.25 and 0.50!

      Thanks for all the help Donk!!! :f_drink:
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,647
      Originally posted by Kinah

      Also what about mid game, should i try to steal here? Or its just better to do steals in late game, with allin?
      Im gonna read more here and practice more on 0.25 and 0.50!

      You should definitely look to steal in mid phase. Just before the final 2 tables are formed, players will start to tighten up as they close in on push/fold. Stealing from late positions with min raises can be lucrative here. You add a significant % to your stack each time you do it succesfully. If someone comes over the top, you can simply fold.

      This also helps your image as players are not so keen to raise into your big blind as you are seen as an active player.

      Also make sure you keep reading about Nash push/fold ranges. It can be surprising sometimes how rags can be a profitable shove.

      Happy Fishing :gl:

      Laz
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey Laz!

      Cheers for that, i started to steal again in mid phase this morning and it went surpricing well! To be honest i was doing that earlier as well, but stopped after a whille since i was getting bullied by bigstacks and then i started to change my tactics to more tight.. And that as the main reason why i lost my 15$ i guess?
      Playing only on 0.25 atm, but allready got into first place this morning and 3 times into final table.. Little bit unlucky on river in final table, so not taking it down totaly yet ;-)
      Also i won 2 tickets to Sunday Million via Satelite, first one went quite bad.. Went all in on button with 9+9, since i was getting short stacked and big stack got me with his 4x Kings on flop! :f_rolleyes: :why:
      Playing the second tournament, but its a shame because i have to get to work in 1h or so.. But anyway i guess this is an good practice and i will be happy if i play decent poker just this 1hour! haha!

      I will try to read more about push/fold ranges, you have any topics in mind i could check? Mainly for turbo SNG, since i wanna be able grind them later on!

      Peace for now! :fuckyeah:
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey guys!
      Got a hand to discuss, what do you think about this 1?
      http://www.boomplayer.com/sv/poker-hands/Boom/13843396_6BDBAB4596 :spit:

      I also had an simular situation earlier, when i was making a "trap" :s_evil:
      Sitting on the mighty A+A and other guy had 3+3, then he got another 3 on turn and owned me on river
      Should i stop making traps? Or in what situations can it be good with one? I think in this first hand "link above" i did it correct... Maybe i was to greedy with the other one.. But this one just felt horrible :why:

      Peace!
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,972
      Hi Kinah,

      Generally speaking, it is best to play in a more straightforward way at these limits. That loss in the first hand (the 53 one) was definitely avoidable. Sure, he would have just folded his blind if you had made a small raise preflop, but think about it - would he really have been willing to pay you off if all he hit had been another 5 or 3? Apart from getting value, you also need to make sure that you protect your strong hands against draws. The flop wasn't exactly draw-heavy in this example, but still, you need to start building a pot at some point. Limping in the small blind can also be problematic, since you will always be out of position after the flop.

      Slowplaying may be an option in some cases, but only if you can be sure that your hand is safe and/or if you have a very good idea about what your opponent is holding. One example could be if you hit a full house, in which case you might want to give out some free cards to let your opponent catch a flush. But like I said, it's usually best to keep it simple at the micros.

      You might find this article useful, which explains the reasons for making a bet in different situations. It's mostly meant for cash game players, but you can make bets for the same reasons in a tournament, even though the situations may be slightly different.
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey Harrier,

      Yehh i guess you are more then right, its just plenty of times you find yourself in spots when people are two tight and it feels like shit to get 100 chips. So i wanted to milk him in most possible ways, instead i got into my own trap! But i guess in SNG`s you have to go with this.
      But what about tournaments? Would this be as a bad move as well?
      Also cheers for the link, im reading it atm, feels like i know i a lot of those things allready there though. But not everything ofcourse :f_biggrin:

      Peace
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,972
      Well, winning a tiny pot is still better than losing a big one. Some players can get trapped into thinking that they are entitled to big winnings whenever they look at AA or KK. This can be dangerous, not only because it might lead to suboptimal play, but also because it can cause a lot of tilt issues.

      Originally posted by Kinah
      But what about tournaments? Would this be as a bad move as well?
      Do you mean scheduled MTTs?

      In certain high blinds situations, which are more common in MTTs than in SNGs, I could imagine that a similar move might occasionally be an option, but even then, you should aim to get your opponent all-in on the flop, if possible. Either way, it depends a lot on the kind of player you're facing.
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Cheers Harrier,

      After all this reading; what i came forward to is that i have to play tight at start. Just so all crazy players would dissapear from the game!
      In midle game try to steal in right positions, not always be as passive as i used to be. If i have a pair on flop i can still make an call, but i have to dodge the bullet as well if someone going all in or raise really hard .
      Late game: In push/fold situations, try to make an (all in call) from late position with Nash Equilibrium. <-- I wasnt doing that part earlier, i guess thats the reason why i lost so many times just before the Final table!
      But at the same time I have played 3 games today and i have lost all of them, eather i didnt get any cards so ante was eating me up.. Or i got 3+3, 5+5 in earliy/mid position and still had to go "all in" because else ante would simply kill me and every single time, the other person had a better hand on the river or turn. "Most of them near Final table or on final table but place 8th or 9th.. Just before the moneyyyy!! :f_eek:
      And it just didnt feel right to go all in from button with 3+7 or 6+4, 2+3, 4+8..
      I also trying to go after small stacks, because it feels much easier to take them out and get some chips..

      Another problem im having, is that in late game if i dont get any cards, im getting stuck between 2 big stacks aka "Bullys".. And its feels impossible to steal anything from them, unless if i get NUTS ofcourse and they didnt hit something crazy on river.

      My only positive things so far, that i won few satelites, for sunday millions.. But on the tournaments feels like im not getting nowhere.. Mainly because i had bad cards and because i suck i suppose! :f_o:

      Should i just continue on pushing my SNG on 0.25 - 45 man? Feels like if i continue reading more tactics i will just mix everything in my head. Simply because a lot of players have an different tactics when they are playing..

      I guess my game volume is not big enough, so i have to continue. At this moment i only play on 2 tables at the time.. Its take me around 2h to finish one game.
      So going bit slowly to get bigger volume, should i mayvbe start playing 3 tables at the time?
      I have a positive feeling about that its going to turn around soon, since im now learning ash Equilibrium solution.

      Sitting in the Final table now on the 4th game, have bigger chips volume this time, so hoping to take it down now.
      Crossing fingers! :s_evil:
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Hey Guys,

      Finaly it feels like im starting to get things forward! Except ofcourse when some fish beats me on river in push/fold situation with some retarted cards! But atleast iknow im doing a right moves and finaly understanding why im doing them!! :---)

      Dont really want to spam here, and im so greatful for all the help i got from you. :f_thumbsup:
      But i have one more question and i dont know where else to ask!
      What do you think about an situation like that:
      Game have just started, you had 1-3 rounds around the table and you get an K,K or Q,Q you limp or raise, at that "level it isnt the biggest difference i think". But suddenly there is one player going ALL IN! :f_rolleyes: What should i do in that situation?
      Should i just fold my premium cards, since i dont have that much information of that player in that stage of game or should i go all in?

      I think i know the asnwer allready, but i cant make up my mind! It feels shitty to fold K,K head up.. But i guess, i have no choice?
      Peace and love to you all! :s_drink:
    • donkament
      donkament
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2007 Posts: 206
      Hey kinah nice to hear its going good. Dont ever fold KK , QQ preflop. Players at these stakes play all sorts of weird hands and go allin with small pairs AJ/AQ/AK etc.
      You can always go allin with KK QQ preflop and be fairly certaint you have the best hand.
      There are some situations in some games that require folding QQ/KK preflop in certain spots. But the 45/90man sng's are not 1 of those :f_thumbsup:
      good luck
    • Kinah
      Kinah
      Basic
      Joined: 03.04.2015 Posts: 11
      Cheers Donk,
      Well i guess you are right in some situations.
      My game atm just going up and down, mostly down ofcourse.. Even though i got tactics down in my head It dosnt matter.
      Everytime i finaly moving forward, guess what? I start losing like 10+ games by badbeats in push/fold phase, because eather BB Sits on A,A - K,K, Q,Q or they simply freaking get amazing hand on river,turn or flop! Most of the times i think, i have hands between 55-70% winning chance before flop, but i never win.
      Eather im beated by river or because they get amazing flash/straight or four in the raw.
      I even started play only 2 tables at time, so i can focus more on my enemys.. Does it help? No with river badbeats 100 times in the raw it dosnt.
      On sharkscope it said im Beating Field 56,9%.. I ask "How", since i only losing cash so far.
      Oh yehh and every single time when i finaly get like A,A or K,K after 4 games.. Guess what? RIVER STRIKES AGAIN! :spit:

      :truestory:
      Just had 7 games, where i got beated on push/fold phase.. Dosnt matter what i do, they always have or get better cards on flop/turn/river!
      Dont take me wrong, i love poker, but keeping losing so much by simply badbeats..
      Makes me wonder will i ever start making small profit! Feels like i have bigger odds wining on lottery, then defeat those lucky bastards in push/fold phase. :mdr:

      Gonna get some sleep, and give more tries tomorrow..
      God bless this shit! :f_cry:
    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,972
      Originally posted by donkament
      Dont ever fold KK , QQ preflop. Players at these stakes play all sorts of weird hands and go allin with small pairs AJ/AQ/AK etc.
      You can always go allin with KK QQ preflop and be fairly certaint you have the best hand.
      There are some situations in some games that require folding QQ/KK preflop in certain spots. But the 45/90man sng's are not 1 of those.
      Spot on, donkament!

      The reason why you can expect to be ahead in these situations is because we always put our opponents on a range instead of a single hand, and hardly any player would only have AA in their range in these spots. Unless your opponent is holding this exact hand, you're a big favorite to win, so it doesn't matter if you occasionally run into aces, you're still making a profitable decision against their range.

      Originally posted by Kinah
      ...you had 1-3 rounds around the table and you get an K,K or Q,Q you limp or raise...
      The only time I would recommend limping preflop is when you have a speculative hand like suited connectors or low pocket pairs and other players have limped before you. Otherwise, you should typically either raise or fold. Not only are you building up bigger pots in case you hit, but being the preflop aggressor also makes postflop play easier. If you think your hand is too weak for a raise, just stay out of it.

      Originally posted by Kinah
      Everytime i finaly moving forward, guess what? I start losing like 10+ games by badbeats in push/fold phase, because eather BB Sits on A,A - K,K, Q,Q or they simply freaking get amazing hand on river,turn or flop! Most of the times i think, i have hands between 55-70% winning chance before flop, but i never win.
      MTSNGs are quite variance-heavy, so losing streaks like these are very common, even you do everything correctly. That's why we're using correct bankroll management, after all. During my latest MTT sessions, I have experienced quite a few nasty bad beats in decisive situations myself, so I know how you feel.

      While it is typically a good idea to stick around and improve in one game, you may also consider trying out a different format and see if it suits you more. The decision is entirely up to you. Every game can potentially be played profitably, so it's mostly a question of which one you enjoy the most.

      I actually compiled a list of the pros and cons of the various formats some time last year:
      Cash games
      + Less variance than most other formats
      + Sessions can be ended or interrupted any time
      - Tilt issues can severely impact your bankroll if you're not careful
      - Difficult to master due to its complex and dynamic play

      SNGs (Single table)
      + Your losses are capped, meaning that tilt has less of an impact
      + Relatively easy to learn
      - Your winnings are capped as well
      - You can't end your session prematurely
      - Moderately high variance

      MTTs
      + Fantastic risk to reward ratio
      + Very exciting if you run deep
      - Huge variance
      - Very time consuming, sessions can't be ended prematurely

      MTSNGs
      Middle ground between single table SNGs and MTTs

      HUSNGs
      + Less variance than in other SNGs (but still more than in cash games)
      + Easy to play a big volume
      + Easier to exploit your edge over weaker opponents than on full tables
      - Very dynamic game, tough to learn
      - Can be very tilt-inducing if you take your defeats too personally
      - Tough to beat the rake at the lowest stakes
    • donkament
      donkament
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2007 Posts: 206
      Hey kinah you can have long losing stretches even if you are playing well. I play MTT, SNG's aswell and im down 75 buyins over my last 100 games and this is a game were im having a positive roi over 2500 games :f_confused: Keep grinding keep learning keep thinking about the game everything else will fall into place.
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