Negative Non Showdown Winnings on NL10 6-max

    • piraya
      piraya
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2008 Posts: 49
      Hello.
      I wrote a post in my blog but noone seems to be reading it, do I will post here too :)

      I have played about 15000 hands on NL10 6-max and I have noticed that I have a very negative Non-Showdown Winnings. Here is a graph (anyway to resize?):



      And here are my stats so far:


      Should this be expected on NL10? Am I doing anything wrong?
      I had a feeling it could be caused by a bad use of continuation-bets, but I'm not sure. And I doubt that it could be the only reason.
  • 12 replies
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      which site are you playing?
    • piraya
      piraya
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2008 Posts: 49
      I'm playing on Prima Network.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      i think on the lower limits, its harder to get non showdown winnings as most players just call call call even with nothing, because the money is almost no object to them on those limits. You should get better Non-showdown winnings as you move up the limits when people actually know how to fold hands.
    • csnmf
      csnmf
      Global
      Joined: 22.11.2006 Posts: 444
      The most important thing is that you are winning overall, but by improving your red line by doing specific things you can improve your winrate.

      But i would say your stats are indicative of not being aggressive enough post flop, checking behind too much taking pot control lines when you should be value betting/protecting against draws. I think this because your aggression frequency and w$wsf are low and your wtsd% is high.

      Although it doesn't matter so much on NL10 you might want to think about loosening up a little bit, there also seems to be quite a big gap between your vpip and pfr considering how tight you play so you MIGHT cold call too much but due to your 3bet% being the number that it is i guess you limp behind alot? If that is the case try isolation raising instead of limping this will also help with non sd winnings.

      But like i said the most important thing is that you are winning and even though it's a small sample size to be winning at 5+ptbb/100 it's fairly safe to say you are a winning player.
    • piraya
      piraya
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2008 Posts: 49
      Thank you very much for your input. I will look into it :)

      I have been thinking of losening up a bit because I play almost as thight now as I did at 10 man tables. But I am not 100% confident in my post-flop game yet.
    • kukkiwonBG
      kukkiwonBG
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2008 Posts: 4,494
      the ideal stats are:

      VPIP 18.3 - 20.2
      PFR 16.1 - 17.7
      PFR/VPIP 0.79 - 0.83
      AF 3.22 - 3.84
      AF% 33.7 - 36.6
      WTSD 24.9 - 26.4
      W$SD 54.4+
      WWSF 43.2 - 45.5
      3Bet% 5.2 - 6.3
      4Bet Range 1.31- 1.68
      Call vs. 3Bet < 23.7
      Fold to flop raise 46.5 - 52.2
      Flop Cbet% 69.7 - 75.1
      Turn Cbet% 40.8 - 45.3
      Fold to Flop Cbet 56.8 - 61.7
      Fold to Turn Cbet < 28.3
      Steal 33.5+
      Check/Raise 8.1 - 10.4
      Call Cbet Raise 28.3 - 33.9

      But you can't hunt for stats. And on NL10 tight game is better, because you can get more money with you big hands.
      But still make your PFR/VPIP about 0.8
      And be more aggressive.

      Best regards,
      kukkiwonBG
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Originally posted by kukkiwonBG
      the ideal stats are:
      Head asplode.

      So, where did you get this from?
    • Grimzor
      Grimzor
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      Jesus himself would be my guess ;)

      I dont think there are "ideal" stats that are perfect against all opponents and all play styles in poker.
    • kukkiwonBG
      kukkiwonBG
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2008 Posts: 4,494
      @ Yoghi:
      From some Holdem Manager help file. But I see it in some 2+2 threats.

      It is very helpful to improve your game. But still it is important to understand why are this numbers like this and to use them as a guild line.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      There are no ideal stats in NL holdem. They just don't exist. A good NL player can play profitable with a 12/11 style as well as with a 26/21 style. Negative "non showdown winnings" are normal on the lower stakes. Don't worry.


      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      hold on, you're up 19 stacks in 15k hands? do you realise how good that is?
    • piraya
      piraya
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2008 Posts: 49
      Hehe. I know it is good. But I want more more more ;)

      Seriously, I dont expect the good run to keep going on forever but there is no reason not to try to improve my game even more.

      Thanks for all the replies.