[NL2-NL10] Nl50 A2s freeplay

    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $9,50
      BB:
      $58,17
      MP3:
      $9,95
      CO:
      $16,89

      0,25/0,5 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.65 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 2:diamond: , A:diamond:
      UTG1 calls $0,50, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0,50, CO calls $0,50, BU folds, Hero calls $0,25, BB checks.

      Flop: ($2,50) 7:spade: , 3:diamond: , J:diamond: (5 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, UTG1 bets $2,00, MP3 raises to $4,00, CO folds, Hero raises to $9,00 (All-In),

      In regards of confusion in my play I thought I had to post this one.

      basically I am facing a bet and then a min2-bet. What can I do in this situation with a nutFD + 1 OC which gives me at most 11 outs?

      Call? -> Insane since your left with $5
      Fold? -> Reasonable but why completing then in the first place?
      Shove -> Against any pair, you have 11 outs but against 2pair+ you only have 9 outs atmost..

      After re-studying this hand, I think a fold was the best move although I was doubting between a Call or a Shove.
      Thoughts?
  • 9 replies
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Easy fold. It looks that at least two players like their hand here and you have no FE. Even if the money goes in 3-way on the flop I doubt that you will be breaking even.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      I just fold. Villains can have us beat so easily, with set or two pair for example. I don't count A as an out. Either that or we will get called down by embeciles with 22, we don't hit and they take the pot away from us. No FE, Not good enough Odds so I just stay away from these places even if we did complete.

      note, this is from a guy who is starting to fold stronger and stronger hands because he's getting bad beat so much ;) I stay away from many draws now as they normally just end in disaster lol. (especially freeplay draws where you get resistance ---> set)
    • matt1234
      matt1234
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 99
      Pretty dry board. Best you can hope for after a limped flop is one chasing 2nd nut flush and the other with top pair, but I think 2 pair/set is most likely. Don't think this as easy a fold as made out though. Probably give you 8 outs which is......32%. Probably getting around 3:1 on money if you get 2 callers.... On balance then is fold as 2 callers isn't definite...
    • DeKuip
      DeKuip
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,995
      This one isn't so easy...
      If one player calls you get enough equity if he has one pair without Ace kicker.
      You're behind against 2pair, set and any pair with A kicker (I presume they don't call you with air here).

      If two players call you, you get enough equity if they both would have 2 pair.
      You're already behind if one of them has a set.

      All these calculations are based on the fact that you would have 9 outs for the flushdraw, so if they don't hold any diamond.

      So it seems to be a fold after all, no matter how tempting this situation might look like :)
      About limping these hands, you also play them for trips/2pair value, not only for the flush. And the flushdraw is only good when your odds are good, which are also based on implied odds. And in this case you don't have any implied odds because you're already all-in on the flop.
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,475
      I wouldnt count the A as outs and just fold here.
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      when its your turn the pot is 8.5 giving you 2.88:1 pot odds to push. I give you 8 outs for any non 7 :diamond: giving you 2:1 hand odds. Easy push for me. I made these calculations based on a formula you gave me, and I use the hand odds chart from pokerstrategy:
      Pot+your stack that will call + your stack / your remaining stack
      I have been using this formula with success, so please clarify if I am doing something wrong.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by davidangel
      when its your turn the pot is 8.5 giving you 2.88:1 pot odds to push. I give you 8 outs for any non 7 :diamond: giving you 2:1 hand odds. Easy push for me. I made these calculations based on a formula you gave me, and I use the hand odds chart from pokerstrategy:
      Pot+your stack that will call + your stack / your remaining stack
      I have been using this formula with success, so please clarify if I am doing something wrong.
      Hello David,

      This formula only occurs when getting Reraised thus knowing your Opponent will call 100% because when you shove, he is getting 10:1++ to call because of your tiny stack.

      In this case we dont know UTG+1 stats but with a Bet and a 2Bet, I don't think chasing after a Flush isn't worth your 19bb stack

      Feel free to respond :)
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      Thanks for clearing that up, I see what you mean from a mathematical perspective, you use it after you have raised (already invested into) the pot. So in this case you have only invested 1/2BB and would need a bigger draw to continue, like if the 7 :spade: was a 2 :spade: ?
      With a raise and a re-raise does that not give us the implieds we need, as the 2bet villian is pot commited?
    • allizdoR
      allizdoR
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 4,568
      I think you can calculate with 9 Outs here. Sometimes they have a set, and sometimes AJ, A7.
      So the A are no real Outs.

      @dave
      I dont think that both will fold. So we need 2:1 to make it profitable.