Spin & Go Bankroll Building

    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Spin & Go Bankroll Building


      Hi and welcome to my pitty attempt to start another blog.
      I always seem to stop updating those quite quickly... :f_rolleyes:

      Anyway, I'm starting this blog to track my progress (if any) and maybe meet other players spinning the lowest limits.

      My thoughts about spins in general and why I will play them:


        - Quite fun. I always liked fast paced formats.
        - Quite convinient. Sessions can last anywhere between 10 minutes and whatever I like. Also tournaments are starting instantly.
        - Super soft. Softest games at the moment (at least in stars)?
        - Variance. Oh god the variance... we will deal with that and hopefully in a good way.
        - Simple yet there is a lot to learn playing them.


      Since my time for poker will be limited to evenings / late nights and maybe weeknds I will probably not be able to put the volume I would like but hey... it's something...

      I will start with a bankroll of $97 (damn you convertion fees) at $1 tournaments.
      My plan at the moment is to try and stick with more aggressive BRM at the lower limits and to tight it up after $7 ones.

      I will take shots at $3 Spins with $225.

      If someone here is playing Spins and have a blog - drop a link, I would like to follow! :f_thumbsup:

      Current Bankroll: $97

      Good luck!
  • 26 replies
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Hey!

      Quick update with a graph.
      Decent start, can't complain.



      Always nice to win your higher prize pools... :f_biggrin:

      See you!
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Will be tracking this! :f_thumbsup: I'm not playing them exclusively, but I do agree they are amongst the most profitable options in stars right now. I play a couple while I'm MTTing in dead periods mostly. If I get enough BR to move to $3 ones I might focus exclusively on them at that time, but $1 is painfully slow to build a BR unless you play a big volume. The variance can be tough though. If you don't win most of the ones in which you get $6+ pools it kills your win rate. Even if you win most of the $2 pool ones losing a couple of $6 pool ones is a major downer.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      BTW, I'm pretty sure I played one against you yesterday if your stars username is similar to your username here. I'm alexnmx on pokerstars. I'm pretty sure we went head to head, can't remember who won, I'll check my HEM tonight. :f_tongue:
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Good luck!
    • ntelis1
      ntelis1
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2011 Posts: 73
      :gl:
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      @alenstrat - Checked my HH from yesterday but coudn't find your name in my database. Pool has to be so huge that I'm pretty sure there are players with similar names :D Let me know if you happen to find me in your HHs :f_biggrin:

      As for the prize pools - Yes, the variance is pretty big and losing few higher buy ins in a roll sucks for sure. But it works both ways and if you have an edge and if you are disciplined, it should be manageable. I think winning as much as possible 2x Spins is super important for your bottom line and they should not be neglected or played lightly. Don't get dissapointed for getting the lowest prize but rather try as hard as you can to win it! :f_thumbsup:
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Hey!

      Quick update here...
      I'm not happy with the volume so far but that was kind of expected. I don't have any target in mind at the moment but still I feel I can do a lot better.

      Alread got some plans for the weekend and probably won't be able to play much more than now.

      On top of that I haven't made any reviews of my game since the start. Did not mark any hands or tourneys in particular.

      On the bright side of things I hit a nice little heater today. Here's the graph since the start.



      Got few x4 x6 in a roll and won almost all of them... :profit:

      Current Bankroll: $134

      Good luck!
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Great job! Nice heater. :f_thumbsup: :f_drink:

      You're really tempting me to put some volume in these at least for one day to see if it's worth a serious shot to be a regular at these. Played 4 today during my MTTs. Cashed 2, a $6 and a $2. The odd thing is I haven't played a single $4 one yet. In roughly 40 S & G I've had 7 $6 ones and the rest all $2 ones. Which is pretty off from the % pokerstars says $2 = 73.5% of tourneys $ 4 = 18.4% of tourneys and $6 = 7.5% of tourneys. I've had 80% $2 and 20% $6 so far.
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      Have a couple thousand of these in my database in another computer, mostly $1 just for the quick action when I'm waiting someone to get ready to go out, I'm much more of a cash guy.

      Can't recall my exact profit, but it after ~2k tourneys my ROI was somewhere around 7%, just so you know. Seems you're running hot though, and also it's important to note that I wasn't (nor will I) devote time in studying these games.

      Good luck at the tables!
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Thanks for the comments guys! :f_drink:

      I'm definetly running hot at the moment with 42-43% ITM. Too high even for $1 Spins. It's always nice to start with a good run but I keep in mind this is not the average or even expected result in longterm.

      As for studying these games - I don't play anything else at the moment so all my poker time is dedicated to this format. Even with that in mind I probably won't put any significant time in studying before $7 Spin and GOs. I imagine $15 to be the best place to actually ramp up the efforts off the tables. For the moment my poker time is best spent grinding. I still like to check out some videos, strategies and discusions here and there.

      On another topic - Anyone willing to drop few lines abouts Xeester and how it comapres to HEM2. Does it run faster, smoother with less system load? Any features that are missing in HEM2? If you have experience with Spins and Xeester how does it handle the different prize pools etc.

      Thanks and GL! :f_biggrin:
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,113
      Hi nvelev,

      we will soon publish a video about Xeester with a small introduction. However, it will be rather general, nothing specific towards Spin&Go.
    • xMerrix
      xMerrix
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 3
      So why is Spin & Go tournaments more profitable compared to other variants of poker ? More whales and fishes ? Lower rake ?
      All in all I think that the 2x Buy in price pool happens too often to make it profitable in the long run. Luck is just too huge variable on Spin & Go's in my opinion.
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Hi xMerrix,

      I obviously can't discuss the topic from personal experience and while risking to oversimplify things I would say that profit in poker comes from mistakes (deviation from optimal play) that our opponents make. Even with their hyper-like structure Spin and GOs give players enough spots to make such bad plays. And sometimes the level of "bad" is mindblowing.

      At the moment jackpot SnGs are one of the very few places where you can find really soft games. That's probably number one reason.
      Rake gets lower on higher levels.
      Variance is quite big and that noone can deny. Strict and somewhat conservative bankroll management should be the way to go. No guarantees but most of the cases should be manageable.

      I agree 2x-s could have few % lower chance to happen but I don't mind it the way it is.

      In the end it is personal preference. Especially at the microstakes profit can surely be found elsewhere aswel.

      Good Luck! :)
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by xMerrix
      So why is Spin & Go tournaments more profitable compared to other variants of poker ? More whales and fishes ? Lower rake ?
      All in all I think that the 2x Buy in price pool happens too often to make it profitable in the long run. Luck is just too huge variable on Spin & Go's in my opinion.
      Hi, xMerrix,
      Welcome to PokerStrategy.com!

      Coach Tim64 did a video series on Spin & Go/Twister formats you might find useful:


      That link should show them all.
      If not, just go to the Video page click the search feature, and enter Tim64 as the author, and tick Basic and Bronze levels.

      Enjoy.

      Best of luck,
      VS
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by xMerrix
      So why is Spin & Go tournaments more profitable compared to other variants of poker ? More whales and fishes ? Lower rake ?
      All in all I think that the 2x Buy in price pool happens too often to make it profitable in the long run. Luck is just too huge variable on Spin & Go's in my opinion.
      This is the table pokerstars posts on its site of frecuency each prize pool occurs :
      $2 = 73.5% of tourneys $ 4 = 18.4% of tourneys and $6 = 7.5% of tourneys The higher prize ($100-$3000) pools have a negligible chance of occuring (less then 0.01%).

      So excluding the "lottery prize pools", over a good sized sample, you have an average prize pool of around $2.70 from the $2, 4 and 6 prize pool tourneys. This means, to be profitable you have to get 1st more then 37% of the time.

      As to the game play, without a doubt it's the softest fields in online poker right now, at least from my experience, and I play a very wide variety of games. To give you an idea, imagine the worse player in a 9 man sit and go, well you face two of those every single tourney, and you mostly do heads up, since one of the two fish normally falls in the first 5 hands and leave you heads up with the remaining fish. It's unlinke 9 man sit and go, where, yes you probably have 2, 3 or 4 fish on the table, but when down to 3 players you normally have two other regulars. Here you are always 3 handed against two fish.
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Hey guys!

      Don't have too much to say today. Bad day at work and bad day at the tables. I managed to make a nice mixture of "C" game + bad RNG and quickly lost my motivation to grind. Well... at least it's friday, right? :)

      Going to listen to chill music a bit and enjoy the rest of the evening resting...
      Let's see if I will be able to bring my "A" game for the weekend :f_cool:
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by nvelev
      Going to listen to chill music a bit and enjoy the rest of the evening resting...
      Let's see if I will be able to bring my "A" game for the weekend :f_cool:
      Hi, nvelev,
      Chillin' with good music is never a bad idea!

      Best of luck finding your "A" game this weekend.
      VS
    • aeusse
      aeusse
      Silver
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 570
      Hi friend,

      I will follow your progress, i have my blog about Spins but in spanish: http://es.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=2514674

      GL
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Hey!

      I'm going to make this quick as I need to sleep badly :f_zZz:

      I think that's pretty accurate description of my weekend:



      At $1 Spins I got really lucky and got х100 reward tourney... Instantly rolled for $3 and pretty happy about it.

      And then... oh the humanity it was terrible. A massacre. I kept getting super nice sets of tourneys... like x4 x6 x10 and never won anything. Seeing all those great prize pools go away on a bad beat one after another was pretty demoralizing.

      Anyway... I don't have the right to complain I guess :f_smile:



      Current Bankroll: $197
      (got $20 with FPPs... shopping therapy?)
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