SURPRISE - BOTS + HELPING PROGRAMS at STARS?

  • 6 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,507
      I have been reading and following that thread since the beginning, and it is frightening s***!

      Cliffs:
      • 1/3 of PLO100/200 volume is made by bots
      • They have collected couple millions profits
      • They share hole cards with other bot accounts
      • They use human operated bots that are not fully automatic
      • They are freerolling as the only sanction seems to be that they have to create new accounts if caught
      • Same bot ring has won a lot of money in HE and MTT's too


      Botting itself is not as bad as sharing hole cards is. You can always adjust against a bot, but when they start to share hole cards they gain unbeatable advantage.

      I honestly have a feeling that this case will create some major changes in online poker as we know it.
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Played vs all of those players. I have to say it's insane how they run. Those are guys that me and my friends all have marked as bad regs, yet they are the biggest winners at our stakes; before seeing the earnings we would all say they are some of the worst.

      The only possible explanation is that they know something we don't.
    • WhiteWalker
      WhiteWalker
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2015 Posts: 464
      Well it is important not to go on a witch hunt, like some respected members of 2+2 said, there are some recognised regulars in that list. The automated hole card sharing is a bit shady too, it has a massive affect on their All in EV if they are sharing but it would be stupidly difficult to do I imagine, they'd have to be doing what sites like Sharkscope are doing and scraping data off of one realtime computer on to another and then sharing to other computers with the other bots. Thats rediculous.

      I do like the idea of someone making and running a bot, the time and effort it would take to make one and risk your capital to see if it works is not small feet but they should be stopped for sure. I know that opinion is a little devils advocate but to be fair you can make adjustments based on bots play it is just those initial hands I imagine where they make their money on unknowns who do not adjust as quick without a large sample of hands. I wonder if the bots adjusts based on their opponent or whether they are just programmed to just play x hands from y position etc, it would an awesome programme to read over.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,507
      If you can code a bot, it shouldn't be difficult to make a code that tells the bot which cards are mucked and then use that information to adjust playing. Knowing mucked cards gives enormous advantage. And if it's so simple to win against bots, how come they are printing money from all regulars?

      These are not those simple bots that used to be ages ago. We are talking about highly coordinated, organized and complex stuff here.
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      If you can code a bot, it shouldn't be difficult to make a code that tells the bot which cards are mucked and then use that information to adjust playing. Knowing mucked cards gives enormous advantage. And if it's so simple to win against bots, how come they are printing money from all regulars?

      These are not those simple bots that used to be ages ago. We are talking about highly coordinated, organized and complex stuff here.
      Yeah. If i can get knowledge of 4 extra cards i guarantee you i can move up to the high stakes today and win there. Add 8 cards and you'll see me at the nosebleeds. This potential info is just so insanely +EV for the cheaters that the bot don't need to be galfond level players. I would argue decent plo25 regs can start crushing 200 zoom if they get extra info of 8 cards
    • SeagalSteven
      SeagalSteven
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 504
      People seem to start get angry about the way Stars has handled (i.e. doing nothing for a very long time) this case, and I 100% agree with them. There are people working to prevent this kind of "scandal", and yet it is users who spot these guys without Stars resources and complete statistics. Then they report them to Stars, who maybe catches some of them and hush-hushes about rest and let them play for months.

      Some lousy few $ refund will not be enough - players will never get back money that the cheaters have stolen. I want to know Stars will improve their cheat-catching methods dramatically, or better yet, hire someone who actually knows what he is doing since staff there seem to be horrifyingly incompetent to do their job.