No card removal in Pokerstrategy Equilab?

    • FlyingDutchm1n
      FlyingDutchm1n
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 278
      Dear Pokerstrategy members,

      just wanted to ask you why there is no card removal process in Pokerstrategy's equilab? For example, if there is a board Js7d5h and I have AJ and I put my opponent on a range of ONLY POCKET PAIRS, and then I look into his exact hand range on the flop, you will see that all pocket pairs have 6 combos apart from the ones that hit a set which only have 3 combos of sets. But this is just the flop card removal aspect, because if it would also take my hand into consideration, you would only see ONE combination of top set JJJ (and not 3 as you can see in the Equilab) and also, not 6 combinations of AA but only 3 should be there because I am holding one Ace already.

      Can anyone please comment on this? Can this be fixed in an update of the Equilab that also the card removal of the holecards in play will be taken into consideration?

      Thank you, FDM
  • 9 replies
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,080
      I’m not sure if it could be fixed in a update, but I’m pretty sure they discount all combinations in the equity calculation. I also post you’re question intern as well. This way you get better feedback most likely.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • FlyingDutchm1n
      FlyingDutchm1n
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 278
      Hi SDK 1987 I have a screenshot for you but I cannot seem to insert it into here (I don't know how at least) but then you will see 6 combos for AA instead of 3 when I put in AJ for myself and 3 combos for a set JJJ when I already have a J on a Jhi board; it is not possible to have 3 combos left then. However I already received an answer that you guys dont work with the developer anymore and thus it cannot be fixed anymore but I do think it is quite a big flaw. All the best, FDM
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,080
      I also get same information intern as well. That’s to bad, but if you want to post screenshots you can drag the screenshot file in to you’re new post and it will be automatic uploaded.

      Best regards,
      SDK1987
    • FlyingDutchm1n
      FlyingDutchm1n
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 278


      OK so here you can see there are 3 combos for JJ according to the hand range viewer which is impossible.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by FlyingDutchm1n
      Can anyone please comment on this? Can this be fixed in an update of the Equilab that also the card removal of the holecards in play will be taken into consideration?
      Hi, FlyingDutchm1n,
      I am told that Equilab is no longer officially supported. That is too bad, since it is a great tool.

      In answer to your question, though, I think that card removal happens in the background.
      To see what I mean, give MP2 the range 44-55
      Give MP3 the range QQ
      This the pre-flop equity.

             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    19.26%  19.05%   0.21% { 55-44 }
      MP3    80.74%  80.53%   0.21% { QQ }


      Now make the flop 4d5s5c
      The equity looks like this:

      Board: 4:diamond: 5:spade: 5:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    87.40%  87.40%   0.00% { 55-44 }
      MP3    12.60%  12.60%   0.00% { QQ }


      Now put a Qs in the "Dead" field:
      If you now close and re-open the hand selection screen for MP3 you'll notice that 6 combos has dropped to 3, and the square has turned a darker blue.

      Any time you see darker blue squares in the hand selection screen, you are seeing card removal effects.
      If you don't see darker blue squares, check the lower left to ensure that "Display card removal" is checked. This only controls the display. Card removal effects are always included in the calculations.

      This screenshot is the scenario that you gave:


      You hold AJo and villain has 22-AA with a Js7d5h flop.
      Note that villains range is given as:
      QQ+, TT-88, 66, 44-22, JdJh, JdJc, JhJc, 7h7s, 7h7c, 7s7c, 5d5s, 5d5c, 5s5c

      The equity calculation looks like so:

      Board: J:spade: 7:diamond: 5:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    37.60%  37.60%   0.00% { 22+ }
      MP3    62.40%  62.40%   0.00% { AJo }


      If I turn off "Display card removal" the equity calculation is identical.
      There are two more checkboxes in the lower left.
      If you check "Display # combos" the light-blue pocket pair squares contain a small 6, the dark blue ones contain a small 3.

      If you click "Show hints over matrix" then if you hover your mouse over a dark blue square a bubble appears over the square showing exactly which combinations are valid.

      I hope that answers your questions...

      All the best,
      VS
    • FlyingDutchm1n
      FlyingDutchm1n
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 278
      No it doesn't answer my questions at all (I have to completely repeat my OP here though unfortunately) because there should only be one combination of a set of JJJ left and if I hover the mouse to show hints it shows 3 which is impossible which is also exactly what I said in my OP (1 Jack on board, 1 in my hand, leaves only 2 jacks for one combo of a set of Jacks). Also if I hold AJ off, and I hover to show hints over the 6 combos of AA, this is also wrong because you can only create 3 combos of AA when there is only 3 aces left to make these combos with and if I hold an Ace, then one of the Aces should not appear anymore in the hint box but all 4 suits of the aces appear for the possibility my opponent has an overpair AA so it is incorrect.
    • FlyingDutchm1n
      FlyingDutchm1n
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 278
      Also why are you posting another screenshot even though I already gave a better one and telling me about the number of combos in the lightblue and darkblue boxes when you could have seen this in my screenshot already? Why post a screenshot without the display card removal if I have already posted one WITH the card removal?????? I just said it only does flopcard card removal, and does not include MY HOLECARD card removal which I think is a major flaw in equilab. Once again everything was already in my OP.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by FlyingDutchm1n
      Also why are you posting another screenshot even though I already gave a better one and telling me about the number of combos in the lightblue and darkblue boxes when you could have seen this in my screenshot already? Why post a screenshot without the display card removal if I have already posted one WITH the card removal?????? I just said it only does flopcard card removal, and does not include MY HOLECARD card removal which I think is a major flaw in equilab. Once again everything was already in my OP.
      Calm down, its not a major flaw you just input your hand wrong, you need to specify the suits of your AJ otherwise it cannot know which Jx is dead.

      It is still giving you the correct equity though, if you put in AcJh etc, it is still 62.40% :f_thumbsup:
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by FlyingDutchm1n


      OK so here you can see there are 3 combos for JJ according to the hand range viewer which is impossible.
      For some unknown reason, I missed this screenshot when I first read the thread.

      My apologies if my attempt to answer your question somehow made you angry.
      Perhaps in future, no-one will bother answering questions from you if they're going to get barked at.

      So.
      You have AJo
      The :Js: is on the board.
      Equilab shows the possible combinations of JJ.
      The 3 combos it shows are :Jd: :Jh: :Jc: :Jh: :Jd: :Jc:
      This is correct.

      The equity is 62.4%

      If you put in your range giving the Exact Jack that you hold.
      AdJh
      The equity is *still* 62.4% and it now shows as 1 combo.

      I hope that helped.

      Cheers,
      VS