How to analyse SnG play using Holdem Manger

    • Noname81
      Noname81
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2013 Posts: 136
      Hi There
      I am new to SnG game.I Played and studied NL Cash games but recently switched over to SnG. I have currently played about 200 games and down 62 buy ins. Things just don't seems to be working out for me. I spent 3 hours a day studying the game and about 2 hours playing over the last week or so. I feel like I am playing an OK game but my results are awful. What I was looking for was some filters or stats that could tell me if I am running extremely bad or suck really bad. I have been looking through the videos on a Data base analyse for SnG but have not been able to find one. I know w34z3l's had some awesome videos on data base analysis for cash games. I am looking for something similar but for SnG.

      Thanks
  • 9 replies
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,100
      That’s a rough start. What kind of SNG’s are you playing and on with limit?
      If I know this it’s easier to help you out.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • Noname81
      Noname81
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2013 Posts: 136
      I am playing 9man 50/30/20 SnG at .50 on Poker Stars.
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,100
      You can always check the EV-line on you’re 9mans graph, but 64 buy-inns down is a lot in 200 games on the 50c stakes. So it’s unlikely it’s only bad luck.

      You have a cash game back round. So than it’s likely you’re not familiar with the Independent Chip Model (ICM). You can find the links about interesting articles about this concept in the Discussion Thread: Chip Value

      You can always ask questions there about those articles and than you get feedback of it.
      Off course most 50c players don’t know this concept, but it could improve you’re edge a little bit in the games.

      I also recommend posting hands on our Hand discussions for Sit and Go-Tournaments board. This way you get feedback of it. That could help to improve you’re game as well.

      I expect this is enough information for now, but if you have more questions don’t hesitate to ask them.

      Best regards,
      SDK1987
    • Noname81
      Noname81
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2013 Posts: 136
      I have been studied the ICM and how the calculations are done. I purchases Icmizer and ran 1000s of calculations(They actually temperately banned me because I used over 1000 calculations in a day and thought I was running a bot on the ICM software program haha). I have read Collins book on SnG, gone through the "SpaveGraveys" course on Pokerstrars school and watch many videos here on Poker strategies. I am trying my best to implement everything I have learned into my SnG games but still no results.

      I followed you suggestion with the ev line .
      Here is my play for different stack sizes. It appears I have been extremely unlucky during the push fold stage of the SnG

      1-5 bb



      6-10



      11-15


    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,100
      Looks like t indeed that you run bad so far, but the tournament graph is the most interesting one I think.

      You can always check how you’re playing based on blind levels. Qua VPIP, PFR, etc.
      That’s also interesting info I think. That’s also possible with how many players you’re on the table and per position.
    • Okkernootje
      Okkernootje
      Silver
      Joined: 02.09.2013 Posts: 340
      200 games is a way too small a samplesize to make any logic comment here.

      Though, like SDK is also mentioning, there are a few things you can look for if your trying to spot leaks so far:
      - check general relations [VPIP, PFR, 3bet]: are you aggressive enough? are you raising enough?
      - check stats per position: from UTG tight to BTN loose? look for gaps or strange patterns.
      - check stats per stacksize: the shorter the looser? does your opens match your stacksize (both sizing and range)?
      - check shoveranges: (what) are you shoving 8-10bb, 10-14bb, 15+bb?
      - check bubbleplay: filter for 5 handed play and look up situations. Hero is short, Hero is midstack, Hero is Bigstack

      Pretty easy stats to look for leaks. GL at the tables.
    • Noname81
      Noname81
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2013 Posts: 136
      I am able to view these stats. I am new to SnG so I don't know the proper value for the stats you mentioned.
    • Post removed

    • Okkernootje
      Okkernootje
      Silver
      Joined: 02.09.2013 Posts: 340
      There should be a lot to find on the internet. I don't think there is "just one right answer" here btw. I can only give or try from my own experience. I play 18m sng with 14% ROI.

      - check general relations [VPIP, PFR, 3bet] only starting to become relevant at about ~100 hands or so:
      > 11/10/2 seems to be the typical nit player.
      > 18/16/6 seems to be the typical ABC standard TAG player/reg.
      > 22/20/9 seems to be the good agressive regs.

      If it looks more like:
      50/7/2 = loose passive. Playing way too many hands, playing them way too passive. Will bleed chips and/or lose against a tighter range.
      41/32/14 = loose aggressive. Playing way too many hands, playing those weaker holdings way too aggressive. Will blow up eventually.
      5/2/0 = tight passive. Playing way too little hands, playing them not agressive enough either.

      - check stats per position: from UTG tight to BTN loose? look for gaps or strange patterns.
      If you don't filter for stacksize, the main thing you want to see if the stats increase when moving more towards the BTN. If they don't, then you aren't opening wide enough when you have less players behind you to act. You must look for "position awareness".

      - check stats per stacksize: the shorter the looser? does your opens match your stacksize (both sizing and range)?
      In SNG's, unlike cash games, you just can't wait for the perfect hand to come by. With the blinds (antes) increasing, you should open up your game.

      - check shoveranges: (what) are you shoving 8-10bb, 10-14bb, 15+bb?
      - check bubbleplay: filter for 5 handed play and look up situations. Hero is short, Hero is midstack, Hero is Bigstack
      These two are just things to look for in the end. Especially bubble play and mastering decent shoveranges (with villains tendencies in mind and proper adjustments to them) will give you an advantage over a good part of the field.