Struggling to find tables

    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      I've been playing on NetBet for a little while now and have been struggling to find any cash tables over NL2. I will sometimes find one or two NL4 tables and for a week or so last month there were 2 NL10 tables open but so far this month there seem to be very few tables open.

      Can anyone shed any light on this? I play mostly between 11:00 and 15:00 GMT, for 1.5 hours or so 3 - 4 days a week depending on RL issues. I've built my roll to the point I would like to be playing NL10 but am stuck having to play NL2, getting very few NetBet points and of course SPs, as there are no other tables.
  • 15 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,029
      Hi Fagin,
      Check your filters, maybe.
      It is currently 15:00 GMT and I see the following:
      My filters:


      My results:


      Hope that helps,
      VS
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,567
      Hey Fagin,

      If you are looking for FR regular tables, you won't find much as everyone at iPoker plays 6-Max. Even Speed is only 6-Max.

      Regards

      Laz
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      I see what the problem is now - I don't play 6 max as I really dislike short handed poker. I have only ever played FR and so set my filters to show tables with 7+ seats.

      I guess I will have to stick to NL2 or move sites yet again. I simply don't understand this move to 6 max everywhere. It is pushing me away from poker completely. last time I tried 6 max my win rate went from 15BB/100 on NL10 to -8BB/100.

      Can anyone offer an explanation as to why 6 max is so popular and possibly point me towards a site that still uses FR tables?
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 28,580
      The only reason I can think on that the action on the 6 max tables is better, because you play more hands than on a full ring (FR) table. Also there are people that think FR for nits.

      On PokerStars you have plenty of FR tables until NL100. After that it will be more difficult. That’s the only site I know with enough FR action on the low stakes and higher.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi SDK1987, thanks for that. I have an account on PS but it is not tracked and I have a bit of an aversion to their software - it just dosen't feel right for me at all no matter what I try.

      I am currently making 14.09 BB/100 on NetBet over 8.5k hands last month according to PT4 so may stay there for a while (that is on NL2, NL4 and NL10 combined).

      I just can't get on with 6 max. On FR I can generally put people on a range and by the turn I can narrow it down to a few possibles. On 6 max I never know what anyone has and just seem to lose all the time. They come up with some bizarre hands - I have seen a 4 bet shove PF from UTG on NL10 6 max with 92os (he stacked QQ and AA that hand).

      I see strange hands show up on all tables from time to time but 6 max just seems to push things too far for me. I'm not after the action per se just the game and of course the profit.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,029
      Originally posted by Fagin
      Can anyone offer an explanation as to why 6 max is so popular and possibly point me towards a site that still uses FR tables?
      Hi, Fagin,
      It's more fun ?

      6-Max is played somewhat differently, in that MP2 is the first position (using FR terminology).
      Even so,
      MP2 FR "standard" open-raise range 66+, AJs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AJo+, KQo (138 combos 10%)
      MP2 SH "standard" open-raise range 22+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo (146 combos, 11%)

      For myself, I open still wider vs the right players, and much tighter vs others.

      When the first "Beginners' Course" was run when I first joined PokerStrategy.com, it was all FR.
      The Course contained a section on Short-handed.
      My winrate went from "almost break-even" to positive -- I was playing NL 10 at the time.

      I don't play anything else now -- unless I have to when playing MTTs.
      FR seems to me now "just fold the first three positions then start playing".

      Perhaps that's why I suck at MTTs :coolface:

      Cheers,
      VS
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,567
      Originally posted by Fagin

      Can anyone offer an explanation as to why 6 max is so popular and possibly point me towards a site that still uses FR tables?
      888 is one of the few FR friendly sites.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi Lazza61,

      I still have an account on 888 and like the site mostly, (it still has a few issues). The problem is that my account there used to be tracked but is no longer. I moved to playing on NetBet so that I would again have a tracked account to allow me to access content here. Looks like I either have to change the way I play, (I seem to remember something about old dogs and new tricks), or not have access to content here.

      When playing FR I will normally either sit out or leave the table if the numbers drop below 7 as I feel that I lose my edge on shorthanded tables and evidence from PT4 backs this up - I have a negative win rate on shorthanded tables compared to FR.

      I wanted to get to Gold status here but that will be a real struggle unless I can play at NL10 due to restricted playing time. I can easily maintain Silver status with the volume I play currently on NL2 and NL4 but Gold status may be just a little too far without NL10 tables.

      Is there content here that could help with the transition to 6 max that I can access with Silver status? I know the basics of poker well enough (I worked up to playing NL50 on 888 with a positive win rate some time ago), but have always struggled on cash tables (my preferred game) when short handed. Strangely my friends consider me a player to be feared on a shorthanded table in live tournament play, even more so if I am short stacked.

      Thanks
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,029
      To all the FR players:
      Would switching to SnGs be the answer, I wonder?

      Most SnGs are FR still -- I think in part because the .50, .30, .20 payout structure is better than the shorthanded one.

      Also, MTTs are almost always FR, and therein lies the big money.

      Just a thought...
      VS
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi VorpalF2F,

      I used to play primarily S&Gs on Party a while back, sets of 6 - 8 at a time, and on NetBet when playing 6 cash tables I usually try to have a S&G or 2 playing at the same time.

      The Toronto is $1, 9 players so not quite FR which would be 10, (why do the NetBet tables, cash and S&G, look like 10 seat tables with one seat missing ???) and I mostly get into one of those. If there is not one of them starting then I will play the $0.50 game, (Darwin possibly? not sure of the name).

      I would prefer to play the Zagreb $2 games, as I have grown my BR sufficiently to play them, but I have never seen one start while I am playing. In fact I don't think I have ever seen more than 2 players registered for one of them since I joined NetBet a couple of months ago.

      Perhaps this is a side effect of the proliferation of 6 max games - or perhaps I am just playing at a time with low player volume.

      I was thinking earlier about another reason the FR games suit my play - when playing 6 FR cash tables and 2 FR S&Gs I will sometimes find that I have 2 or 3 tables needing decisions at once, not usually a problem. If I was playing 6 max I would need to reduce the number of tables, initially at least, as the hands come around more quickly on each table, (fewer people to take up time making preflop decisions), so I would be more likely to have multiple tables needing decisions at the same time.

      I enjoy MTTs and have done well in them on other sites but with only 1.5 - 2 hours to play, thanks to RL considerations, they simply take too long.

      I should add that I struggle with turbo games and as for hyper turbo, I may as well not look at my cards and just shove every hand. I tried playing a hyper turbo S&G once - I started on the button and when I came to put in my first big blind, not having played a hand in the first orbit, the bb was 400, nearly half my starting stack of 1000 !!! Talk about shove or fold poker - never again.

      Managed to play 6 NL2 tables and 1 Toronto and 1 Darwin? together today. Finished up a few $ but it takes time and volume to grow a roll at this level.
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,567
      Hey Fagin,

      Man, I feel your pain. When I did play cash NLHE a few years back, U sed to do the same. When I was grinding Stud cash games (8 player tables), I would leave when it got under 5. But as you said; old dog, new tricks.

      I played a lot of 45 man SnGs on Stars (FR) and actually broke into 6-Max by playing PLO8 SnGs on NetBet. These days I am primarily a MTT player (can't wait for MM to start :fuckyeah: ) but in recent months have found myself playing more 6-Max NLHE MTTs and going ok just by following Vorpal's advice above. Remove UTG,UTG1 and MP1 from your mind.

      A couple of great resources to check out in transitioning from a cash game point of view are w34z3l's 6max walkthrough - (microstakes edition) and No Limit Beginners course with confidant91.

      Not only is there a lot of great stuff in there about busting out of the 6-Max micros, you could also ask the coaches directly any specific questions regarding transitioning from FR to 6-Max.

      Regards

      Laz

      P.S. The reason I think that the iPoker rooms FR tables look a little weird was because of the advent of DoNs (which are true 10 seaters). As iPoker are developing a totally new software platform, it probably was considered unnecessary to spend too much on something that doesn't actually affect gameplay.
    • 8runo
      8runo
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2015 Posts: 653
      Originally posted by FaginI don't play 6 max as I really dislike short handed poker. I have only ever played FR
      I've been playing Fast 6max tonight (NL€5) - you might want to steer clear of them if you do get tempted to give 6max a try .... in the last 30 minutes or so I've played 130 hands - and NONE have had 6 players seated!, just 5 have had 5 players seated, and the remaining 125 hands were 4 way!!

      I don't understand why tables don't play with 6 all the time (except when a short player pool, which is not the case at the moment - just under 200 players) - but even so, its not usually this bad.....


      Originally posted by Lazza61
      As iPoker are developing a totally new software platform,
      Any more information on this? Any idea when its due? iPoker badly needs better software!
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,567
      Originally posted by 8runo

      Originally posted by Lazza61
      As iPoker are developing a totally new software platform,
      Any more information on this? Any idea when its due? iPoker badly needs better software!
      You can view more information here.

      Please note, these clients are connected to the iPoker network so you will be using your real account balances and playing real games.
    • tonypmm
      tonypmm
      Silver
      Joined: 11.01.2009 Posts: 3,921
      In general, if you want to be a poker professional, you need to learn to 'follow the fish', adjust to their needs. As the majority of them like playing 6-max, learn to play 6-max; as most of them prefer Twister to conventional SnGs, learn to play Twister; if there are too few of them at your usual playing times, adjust your schedule so that you get a better hourly winrate, even consider emigration to a better time zone in severe cases (of course only when you decide to go a full-time pro, which is not an easy decision nowadays).

      Originally posted by Fagin
      why do the NetBet tables, cash and S&G, look like 10 seat tables with one seat missing
      Even though most of the tables were converted to at most 9-seat at the beginning of 2014, there's one notable exception - 10-player €5 Maui jackpot SnGs. Had the number of seats been reduced to 9, that would have dramatically increased the chance of winning the jackpot, which the network didn't want, apparently because it didn't want to increase the fee for these tournaments or make the jackpot growth rate lower to compensate for that.

      Other than that, as Laz has said, designing a separate table layout for 9-max would have taken too much effort. What iPoker needs to do is to perfect the client to the point where it's 1) usable by recreationals, 2) stable. Other annoyances can be fixed by third-party software.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi tonypmm,

      "if you want to be a poker professional" - I don't currently have any aspirations in this direction, I play for fun and to make a few $ "on the side" as they say. As for following the fish, there are times that I wonder if it is them following me, or perhaps I am the fish that is being followed.

      I would happily adjust my schedule - if you would kindly advise my employer that I can't be available when they need me in the office that would be great - I'm not about to tell them as I have bills to pay!

      I am coming to the conclusion that I will either have to figure out a way to install an upgrade to the Poker 1.2.1 that my play runs on or just move back to 888.

      I would be happy to emigrate - preferably to a warmer climate - just a minor problem of needing the work to support myself and my family.